Well here we go again

[Yorkiesand235]

Will the two competing teams stop acting like little kids or using their handbags [:-].

I would have thought between Sunburn, Herman and mikmyk you have scared off people from using a great product I have been playing Harpoon since the (Amiga I think) and I've seen all the uproar of the past about Harpoon ,it not a competion to see which database is correct or right. Its about supporting a great product reporting bugs and letting Matrix games getting on with fixing them. At the moment the only people I really see are the DB2000 crowd and the PDB crowd posting in here to see who can shout the loudest, just quit your whining get playing, get devloping great scenarios (your scenarios rock) and help in bug reports.[:D]

This is great product I've played for years - still rubbish at it - where did that torpedo come from!!!!???? What missile - oops that one as my ship goes down - the radar would have helped to see it.[8|]

Its about time you all grew up and if you can't work together live with it.

Apologies to all but I've played harpoon for a long while just getting sick and tired of this bickering to be honest.

P.S. please don't post in this thread unless you have something mature and professional to add - as soon as it it turns into I'm better then you thread, then moderator please close it

[Flankerk]

Am none too clear what the best solution is to be truthful.
I think the idea was originally that the posts marked up as HHQ picks of the day etc would be used solely to comment on scenarios available at HHQ. It wasn't intended to be hijacked in the way it has become.
Maybe this could revert to being posts only on those scenarios with Herman refraining from commenting, and a similar set up adopted by PDB scenarios?

From my point of view the posting on Hermans Daily thread did appear extremely confusing, but I gather I am extremely poorly educated [8D]

[Yorkiesand235]

Yes I would agree to that, its a showcase for the game showing what is good at i.e about the user developedscenarios in the game. Personally I think people should play the game more and develop more great scenarios so I can sink more of my ships[X(].

Cheers[:D]

[Dimitris]

Hi YorkieSand,

The point that such arguments drive away players has been expressed before and addressed here. A bit of elaboration might be helpful.

Like you, most of us would like all of this to just go away and disappear. We would also like world peace everywhere, poverty to cease to exist, free oil that produces zero emissions and so on and so on. Point here being that wishing for something is nice and all; actually managing to make it happen is a bit more complicated and involved.

Bickering among producers of content/material is nothing new. Look in any creative profession and you'll easily see disagreements that all too often spawn into full-fledged clan wars (sound familiar?). Look in any major game online community (take your pick) and you'll see people arguing, sometimes over miniscule details. In fact, it could be argued that the creative differences between competing teams are often the primary driving factor behind the evolution & improvement of the discipline at hand. Show me an art or science where there is no dissenting opinion about the state of things and I'll show you a stale profession with no passion or little incentive for innovation and improvement.

The question, then, is not whether the existence of disagreement and differing opinions within the Harpoon community is a harmful element. The real question is: which factors feed from this dissent and transform it into the vile material you have observed in other forums, and now in this forum as well (thankfully in limited form so far).

In my opinion, the "positive disagreement" process goes south the moment that even one single person (with or without the encouragement of others) considers that his current benign methods of argument are insufficient to advance his line of reasoning, and decides to step into the dirty tricks territory to further his goals. At this point, things like multiple forum aliases and sockpuppet profiles, DOS attacks & forum hack raids, forum bans "for who you are, rather than what you've done", software theft, incessent forum spamming, picking on other people's work, copying other people's work without permission or due credit, thread hijacking, outright lying etc. etc. all become fair game. This is the point where the vile material is generated and the previously good-natured disagreement can turn into something really ugly.

Bear in mind that the people who turn to this sort of methods usually go to great lengths to appear as the community's champions. After all, popularity is one of the main reasons (if not the sole reason) they got into the game in the fist place. You will often see them appear right away to help a newbie question (sometimes the immediacy of their response precludes them from providing actually useful help). You will see them trying to generate mountains out of molehills (e.g. conjuring non-existent bugs etc.) so that they can show themselves off. You will see them sporting huge advertising material for their sites. You will see them freely copying ideas & concepts from other people at will.

Also, have no doubt that these people love it when someone posts something along the lines of "Stop it, all of you! Stop bickering and just make good stuff! Grow up already!". To them, it reads like a community admonishment of the justified reaction from other members, and a quasi-legitimizing of their methods. Little do they realise that the community decries not the reaction alone, but rather the entire created mess - and guess who's responsible for the mess to begin with?

So, what CAN actually be done about it? Like I said before, the disagreements themselves are not going away anytime soon, and it can be argued that they _should not_ go away. What CAN be done is to contain, to the maximum extent possible, the elements that turn the constructive dissent into a destructive potshot warzone. Contributing positively without much fanfare and worry about one's self-image is a good start for this, and I think you can easily observe which community members are following this line. Another way is to avoid feeding the trolls - and let me be the first to admit to yielding to the temptation to respond now and then. Above all, recognising the dirty tricks is the most important element. Seeing is avoiding; avoid rewarding the jackheads and the futility of their tricks will, even slowly, catch up with them.

The community has a pretty good view of who the bad apples are. It's just a matter of collectively showing them the door.

[Szilard]

Well, I'm somebody who might be a new buyer of Harpoon at some point, and my attitude to the squabbling is two-fold.

First, it seems that the game is absorbing enough to cause people to make idiots of themselves on public forums about it, for what appears to be many years. I wouldn't worry about the squabbling driving people away, and I think it's astute marketing on Matrix's part to let you guys act out as much as you want here.

Second, if I do ever buy the game, I would have little interest in participating actively in a "Harpoon community".

[Yorkiesand235]

Sunburn

I disagree with you saying about splits in communitys the ones I'm in seem to have normal discussions!! War in the pacific, TOAW but not on the level of this where is like guerila warfare and they work together to solve issues.

There was no requirement to explain just so we can hear a version of events, I'm expecting Herman to put his side of events over against you blah blah. All I can see yet again two egotistical groups trying a PR campaign to each knock each other at the best opprtunity . Have a drink pm each other talk is never too late you know - its takes two to tango.

I'll keep playing ANW with all the databases around leave you guys to argue (this is how it comes across I'm afraid Sunburn) and waste time when you could be playing the game or developing new scenarios. Merge the databases, keep em separate, they are both great along with the rest.

Please close this thread Moderator can't take this no more

For all the newbies buy the game ignore me and just play the game.

[mikmykWS]

Fair enough. Poof I'm gone[:)]

[David Heath]

Hello Everyone

Just for the record Matrix Games managment is watching this forum and if things start to go off the deep end we will step in and take any steps needed to calm things down. We are not going to allow this forum to become what we have seen in the other Harpoon forums around the net. We expect that as the game grows and new players join us the fighting will take a back seat or those wanting to fight will be banned from this forum.

To the new Harpoon players please let me welcome here amd get ready to enjoy one of the best naval games on the market. If you have any questions please feel free to ask. Our Harpoon forum MOD is Dale Hillier (VCDH = forum name) who has years of Harpoon under his belt and his word is final on this forum.

We have some new Harpoon news coming out soon, so until then enjoy the game.


David Heath
Matrix Games