Przemcio231 (A) -v- vonSchnitter(J): Cherry Blossom

[vonSchnitter]

Hi Chaps !

This is Tokyo Rose broadcasting the latest news on events in the Pacific, Phillipines, Malaya, Burma and the Dutch East Indies - oh yes there is China, kind of an appendix.

This thread is supposed to be off limits to Przemcio231 or other of my PBEM opponents.

The PBEM is based on patch 1.801, CHS Base 2 and Scen 155 ver 2.05

The game has now reached 20/12/41 - that saves me from boring you with the first couple of days of the war which are pretty much of the same mold anyway. You have had read enough of those at nauseam.

Let me start with the "house rules" which took some discussion:

Settings.
Jap Sub Doctrine: Off
Allied Sub Doctrine: Off
FOW: On
Adv Weather : On
Allied DC : On
Hist 1st Turn: On
Veary Setup : Off
Dec 7th Suprise : On
Reinforcements - Static
Combat Reports - ON
Combat Animation - ON
Auto Sub Ops - OFF
All Facilities NOT set to Expand
Upgrades/Replacements - OFF
1 day turn
PDU – ON

I think every thing here is Good as those are pasted from your post;)


AIR House Rules

1 - IJF player will not "upgrade" light bomber units beyond Lillys or Lilly upgrades untill mid 44
2 - Allied player will not "upgrade" single or dual engine units to 4E units, unless these units have the option to upgrade to 4E - like in a PDU-Off situation that is.
3 - Corsairs are not deployd to USN carrier service till 1.1.44. RN Carriers may use early Corsair models at the allied players discretion.
4 – AVG limitation scrapped
5 - Strategic bombing of the Japanese home islands may commence starting with third quarter 1944 from Chinese bases. Except for one go earlier to emulate the "Doolittle Raid"
6 - All allied air units - except US AAF - will require PPs to move into China and conduct other operations than transport
7 - IJF will use historic AC on carriers only - till say mid 45 (in case any CVs are left). Unless allied player allows otherwise.
8 - "Stacking" of air units at a base is limited to 50 AC of any description per airfield size. Surplus AC are to be set to "training level 0". Both sides have about 7 moves to "resolve" the issue at startup. Except Aden, West Coast, and Japan Home Islands.
9. If AV support is present, floatplanes are allowed to operate from 0 size bases. Presense of AV support adds 50 additional AC to base of “floatplane” types.

Naval

1 - ASW "Hunter - Killer" TFs are restricted to 6 ships of any type.
2 - Units of AG, PT or any sort of landing ship types may not move beyond their defined endurance unless escorted by ships with sufficient fuel (plus/minus 2 hexes). If those escorts get sunk, and the escorted units cannot reach a friendly port within their remaining fuel, those units will be scuttled at the next possible move.
3 - IJN Subs will not carry any other AC than Glens.
4 - Any surface war ship starting with DE/DD classes may not be replenished at bases with less than a port size of 2 (two). Unless at least one AE, AD, AO (any support ships, excluding AV/AVD/AR) type ship is present and "Docked" (with or without supplies). In case some sort of "automatic" replenishment occurs, those ships affected will stay put for two moves.
5. PT stacking in a port is limited to 30 PTs
6. Single ship TFs are limited to 3 per hex - including ports - after 1.1.42. Does not apply for subs or damaged ships
7. Only one KB attack on Pearl and after the innitial Surprise

Ground
1 - No breakdown of LCU's in combat to reduce fatigue and disruption.
2 - LCU's belonging to the Kwangtung command may not leave Manchuria unless PP's are spent to change their command.
3 - LCU's belonging to China Command may not leave China or Manchuria, unless they change command.
4 - Allied Chinese LCU crossing the Chinese border to the west need to have their command changed
5 – Allied Combat LCUs entering China, need to change their Comand
6 - Russia stays neutral till activaded by the game engine. All allied units entering russian territory are interned for the duration of the game and may not participate in any fighting unless attacked.
If Japan decides to attack SU the Allied player should be informed on that fact 30 days before the attack so he can reposition his troops...
7 - For Atolls and single hex Islands a special stacking rule applies:
Each Base of any size (dot and upwards) can accomodate groundtroops with an Attack Value of 100. Each port, airfield and fortification point allows to stack another quota of 50 attack points.Bases larger than 4 port / 4 AF get a Bonus of 250 attack points per additonal base point

Invasions

No submarine invasion’s Except for “Raider Units”


AAR
Both players may start an AAR on the WitP message board. Each player may state the character of this - or any other related thread - off limits for the opponent or not.


Final:
If "consolidated", all agreed upon "house rules" are subject to negotiation, to keep the game challanging and interesting for both sides.
If "histrory" or "gamey" becomes a question, the message board or "The West Point Military History" series of publications will settle any disputes.
And of course bring along any books and references available - may add another "learning curve" -even though these sources are not considerd "final" if not agreed upon


Just a comment on house rules:
I have no idea, how the current stacking of LCUs will affect the war. However, linking the amount of troops per base to the supply line (ability to expand bases with supplies and engeniers) in some cases is a good thing. Far better integration with any system of logistics than before.
I had suggested applying the rule to all pacific bases - only excluding Hawai, NZ, continental Australia and the islands between Formosa and Japan - including Malaya, Burma, DEI, and PI after taken by the Japanese - but this turned out as a "no go". Again. Do not know what this may have yielded.

China rules: There is just two items the Japanese need in China - spades to dig trenches and fox holes and concrete for gun positions and pillboxes. 2.05 has pretty much emascicated the Empire of the sun in this theatre.

Finally: I am not much in favour of the "historic" first turn with surprise. The 20/20 hindsight and the 100 % perfect "recon" for both sides takes away a lot of the fun. Actually, in this context with opponents somewhat seasoned, I think it is utterly "gamey" and against the grain.
Anyway. Since my opponent insisted on this sort of start - and since the discusion on the rules strongly hinted at some "pet strategy" of his, I got interested. I have seen some, but there is a possibility for something new any day. Curiosity kills the cat. Right ?

A summary of the first days is to follow.

Cheers

[vonSchnitter]

Well,

since any "interested parties" have read the bold line on bugging out:

My basic strategy for the first 30 days:

Malaya: Given the current map of Malya and Burma, the main point of taking Singapore is a plan to invade Burma bases by sea - since the road network punishes the Japanese advance in terms of speed and - more important removes any option to outflank the allies around Moulmine - no complaint, mind.
Besides some oil and resouces - cutting the Burma/Ledo road to China is not of a priority - considering the current supply issues of chinese units. (to much independence ouside the resources/factories available)

In a first approximation: Bottling up the Brits at Singapore is fine. Waiting for some good wheather to smash the allied air power at Singapore in January and then go in. Evacuations are fine by me. Trying to hold on, would be costly after the taking of Kuching and/or "Georgetown" for the allies.
A single Division will suffice as a "cork" at Singapore. Freeing the rest for other uses,

Burma: Get your ground forces in position (Rahaeng/Bangkok), build up Bangkok to interdict enforcenmets to Rangoon and wait for events.


China: Use all available spades to dig in. A "demonstration" in the south is ok. It would take about a month to rearange the forces available to free up a small "manouvering force". And of cource, use anything with wings to go for "ground attack", clear out the lines of communication.

PI - Luzon: The main point is destroying allied air power. Bombing the air bases will do. The main purpose is to force all ground units into Battaan. Guard them with a minimum of troops, bomb them and take them out in April. Simple.
There is an issue however: Legaspi.
The innitial landing is weak, and some stronger advance may force you off. This would eliminate a - tentative - plan B. Cutting off the allied forces south of Clark Field - shortening the campaign by one month.
But it can be done ! See next post.
Use a CVL TF to saveguard against Southeast Fleet surface incursions to start with.
And it takes about 6 days to get the first regiment of the 16th Div to Legaspi.


PI- Mindanao: Depends on allied air dispositions. B-17s at Cagayan can proove themselves as a pain in the a##, given time. If not - bide your time. Davao and the rest becomes a "target of opportunity"


SWPAC - This is the future playing ground for US 4 and 2e bombers. Moving the 2nd and 56th Div plus the 56th Brig to Truk is the very thing. If supported by propper bombardment and CV support, Rabaul, PM, LAE in this succession, should work - then move down the Solomons. Or use small TFs in the Solomons as a kind of distraction. Lunga will elicit a response quick.

Pacific: Wake ! Tarawa, Baker, Canton ! then support SWPAC - or southeast fleet rather. After that, make a demonstration against the Fidshies !

Celebes and Timor: The 4th Div plus small fry from Palau should work. Coordinated with advances in SWPAC and it is deadly. Free up the 21st at Peking asap - and use them as a floating reserve.

Just a rough outline.

[vonSchnitter]

Still around ?

First turn:

Quite uneventful except for those -

A TF heading for Kota Bharu fired the first shots in anger - sinking an allied Sub at first sight.
The attack at PH went main well: 5 BBs with 4 torps each (plus bombs), one with 3 and more with one - minimal losses to my air units.

Wake: Neither here nor there.

The rest as usual.


My first response included a meeting up of the KB with the supply TF North West of PH, loading at least the first regiment of the 16 Div. at Amami to go to Legaspi at full speed

Stopped the landing of of the 18th Div at Kota Bharu and send them over to Singora and have the Surface TFs at Kota Bharu do a bombardment.

As it turned out two "routine moves" became very important: Moving a Tina Group over to Kiungshan, split them to squadrons and have them airlift the paras there to Laoag - a sieze a sze two field, useful for DBs on naval attack and to Naga, to help impede any allied advance against my weak landing in Legaspi.

In China - despite using shovels - the issue is multiplying (freeing up) forces. Using some smallish units from Taichu to be used at Swatow, Ningpo and Hangshow does help a lot.

More to come

Cheers

[vonSchnitter]

After this summary - more current reports will follow:

Events by Theater:

PI:
The second day resolution bore a surprise: My Paradrop at Naga encountered heavy opposition ! One unit of his warping there. Um.
The Paradrop at Loag worked - moved some air support and dive bombers/fighters there - to attack his ships at Manila. Worked nicely. 2 Subs and some other.

Naga - what now ? Legaspi in high danger.
What is more: My opponent is of a "forward defense" disposition.

Naga: More para drops to stop his advance.
Worked with a para drop at Lucena (undefended) in the rear - stupid on my opponents part - and Lamon Bay (to give those paras at lucena a way of retreat for the inevitable attack).
Worked. Delayed his advance till a 4BB bombardment TF arrived at Naga ! Had used the DD Squad from Legaspi before to bombard.
His 3 Div Attack failed of course. The 16th Div and supporting units deflected his approach - he is now retreating to Manila - let him. I just want to bottle him up. The units from the north are advancing slowly.

OH, and I managed to get the second CVL to arrive off Legaspi to team up with the other.

While this is nice, the real action took place elswheres.

The Japanese use a mort of surface TFs around the PI, while a number of big units are left in home waters. 6BBs, 1 CVL, 2 CVE - no suitable support units in sight.
Extricating the units around PI - guarding against air and surface ship interference - is of the first priority for speedy advances in the DEI and in Southern Fleet areas.

This "extrication" of course depends on the allied forces available.

I noticed the absence of the PT boats at Hong Kong - save 1 to deceive me. Cunning dog.

However I got them at Vigan using a combination of surface TFs ! Trading 1 DD for his PTs - freing up many more. The thread of combining the Manila PTs with the ones from Hong Kong removed - see 4BB bombardment of Naga ... That freed up my CL, CA, DD forces in the PI

The reminder of his PTs were handled by my "light forces" easily.

He has "parked" his subs in my "invasion" ports though. With little result but heavy losses. Two MSWs per port will do. Torp them, I just want my BBs unscathed.

DEI: Nothing much yet.

The 4th Div is heading from Shanghai to Palau and 6 BBS plus 2 CVL/2 CVE are makaing ready. Not a dent in my time table. And of course a number of support craft.

Malaya:
Alor Star and Kotha Bharu taken. Almost all LCUs for Singapore in Malya. Georgetown will be attacked in a day. Opponent uses a "forward" defence. Delayed 18th Div. from Kota B. for that reason. (5 opposing units, bombardment will do - one enemy unit approaching ?)
Deploying air units.
He does guard his rear against paradrops ! Great.
Hope to cut off hist troops at Johore Bharu - fingers crossed.

Central Pacific:

Wake taken at last - new invasion - used entire KB to do some ground attack in the first and second move. Reduced to an airgroup of two carriers - and his subs at wake sighted 2 CVs - with a little luck, he thinks KB is split up.
Not till Canton Isl is secured.

Cheers

[SamCole]

Interesting reading, that seems to be a lot of house rules.

I do not believe that Naval #2 is possible, I am sure you can not scuttle a ship unless it has a lot of damage to it.

Ground #6, the Japanese player would have to actually activate the Russians and then wait for 30 days until launching an attack. The Allied player can not move any russian units( except air I think ) until activated.

I read with some interest your opponents rant on your paratroop drops.

Good luck to you and I am taking notes. One thing I see is do not agree to a historical first turn.

[vonSchnitter]

Hi Sam !

scutteling - yo, is a problem. I told him, he can use subs for refueling his PTs - worked in the past. And the scutle is on the next "possible" move.

As to the Russians: I am not going to tackle them - so it is lack of troops in Kwantung or historical actication. 30 days his sugestion.

Paradrops: Yeah, stopped him cold - he is in full retreat ! He - or me - did have this one on the radar, I guess. However he is very loath now to leave any base unguarded. [:D]

The house rules are quite simple, I think.
There are just two basic ones: All are negotiable, and if questions arise, this here message board has the last say if we cannot aggree between ourselves. And if it is a draw as far as opinion goes, options are suspended. Fair, me thinks.

Cheers

[vonSchnitter]

Ok, let's get into details

it is 12/22/41 -

not much doing on the surface this move.

However, my opponent uses two sets of confirmed tactics - as far as I can see.

1. Subs. He uses his subs á la japonaise - that is using them in picket lines across assumed lines of approach or he "parks" them in my ports.
2. Air Assets: He tries to confuse me by sending them around the map or attacking different targets each move. Like sending out B17s and B24s (!) from Singapore last move.

Both are fine - he is not going for my TKs !

And I certainly do not care.

Malaya:

18th Diff is holding 5 of his Brigades SW of Kotha Baru - bombarding them. Just to keep them fixed. I am not attaking in a mountain hex for sure. Holding them is good enough - see the "para drop" thread.

5th and 2. Guard Div are at Georgetown - plus support units - deliberate attack next. If taken, more Sallys and Nells will move to Malaya - closing down SIngapore as a port. He is still bombing Khota Batu - let him. Just some Guard unit around.


Burma: Nothing to report


Borneo:

I have a picket line of subs from Malaya to the western tip of Borneo. 3 Subs deep at places. He may know, since at least one of his TKs was sunk

A Bormbardemt TF (2bb,2CA) is on the way to Kuching to cover operation "crab": Take Brunei, move to Kuching take it, take Jolo isl. with pretty much the same forces and use the 35th Brig after Kuching to take Tarakan, while other forces are busy at Menado/Davao/Amboina/Kendari

And I have 4 subs in the narrows west of Balikpapan - scored, so he knows. Good.


Mindanao:

Send a 4BB bombardment group to Davao - little if any resistance. No troops. Recon from Palau will confirm.
2BB TF heading for Manado.
2 CVL TF holding the line, 2 CVE TF moving to replace - CVE Taiyo is a crack ship !

Luzon:

No More air resistance - no bombardments from Mindanao. Big mistake
16th Div + Support at Naga - bombardment. Just to hold his unnits
48th plus support moving to Baguio - 65th Brigade moving to Lingayen - guess two bombardments at the west coast had effect. 65th advance secured by 1st NLF.


China:

3rd day of attack at Hong Kong (38th plus 51st Div and support) will commence.
104th at Canton - he send a number of units forward. Exchanged the 104th and 51st at Hong Kong to send in some fresh troops - he did not notice.
Evacuated Ichang - save a token force - to gain some manouvering possibilties.
Clearing out of Chinese threats to my line of communication well advanced.

Southern Fleet:

56th Brigade Ready for Rabaul (at Truck)
2nd Div has arrived at Truck (headed for PM)
More units are prepped and loaded for Admiralties, Kavieng, Buin, Shortlands - one coordinated move after Rabaul
Lunga, Gili Gili etc as appropriate.


4th Fleet:

71. Div boarding for Kwajalein.
KB (6 CV) Heading for Kwajalein.
Invasion of Baker on the way. Covered by KB
Invasion of Canton together with Baker, just two days later.

Cheers

[vonSchnitter]

Time for an update: The Date is 12/29/41

His parking of Subs in ports continues. Very few Subs in Japanese homewaters or around Formosa. I have no clue, what he has in mind, but I am greatful for this, since my transport TFs are getting through without losses.
The pattern of his air unit deployment becomes more clearly to me.
He still sends them around all over the place - without much success. But he has changed it a little, trying to apply "mass", that is concentrating his forces in a small area, attacking a single target. That is fine by me - he lacks the forces to be everywhre this way. Except for a big (50+ B17s plus B24) attack on Alor Star on the 28th which had some effect, he got a bloody nose so far, or fought shadows.

So far I have not seen much of his ships. A convoy or two to Rangoon, nothing to Malaya. He may be trying to get some supplies into PI - not too sure yet:

Burma:

Tavoy was taken - on the 28th. Troops are assembled to start an advance to Moulmein. He has some troops there - guessing at the resident units in Burma.


Malaya:

He tried some sort of forward defence.
However Georgetown was taken on the 25th and my troops are now at Taiping. He has some 11 units there, but mostly beat up units. A deliberate attack should suffice.
18th Div. is still holding 5 units (Brigades) southwest of Kota Bharu - one of his units is moving south.
Guess his fronts is about to crumble and a race for Johore Bahru will be the result. Either his western or his eastern fronts are threatened to be cut off from reaching Singapore.

Borneo:

Miri was taken by paras on the 27th - the Landing at Brunei commenced the next day - and attempt to take Brunei by Para drop the same day failed. However the landed infantry took the place on the 29th. Same goes for Jolo Isl - paras.
He had concentrated some Air units in Tarakan - torpedo bombers - Swordfish and dutch TVFs. The first day went well - but on the 29th a Swordfish scored a hit on BB Kongo - 30 sys. Nothing mayor.
The general plan - keep all TFs heading for Borneo concentrated has worked very well. The various TFs have now fanned out - the 35th Brigade one day of sailing off Kuching (with a CD unit, 9th Base force and some more in train) supported by a 4CA TF, a 1CA, 3 CL and DD TF, and a 1BB, 2CA, DD TF - with air support now available from Brunei. Another group of TFs is heading for Jolo - Air support should be available from the island, when they arrive. Fuel and supplies are flowing into Brunei. Dmagae to the oil field wath minimal.


Luzon:

Naga is to be taken by the current move. I held back, to force him to maintain a strong force south of Clark field. In the hope of cutting them off.
Baguio was taken on the 27th - he should have held it. A river crossing - he may have delayed me for a long time, due to heavy disruption caused by a cross river attack. But he had evacuated the place.
The 65th Brigade is supposed to take Lingayen with the next move - only one unit around to oppose. Most likely just a base force.
Incessant bombardment of Manila harbour by a group of Anns has yielded some good results - including an AS and an AR.
I kept bombing Clark field, Manila etc. to draw off supplies. Sonias are ready to move over to help in the ground attack role.

Mindanao:
Invasion of Davao is close - this move or the next.

Celebes Area:

Invasion of Manado on the way - next two days. Includes large supply and fuel TFs to replenish the support units for Menado/Davao for a swift andvance on Amboina - with a little luck the Kendari invasion will just work as an "extension"
Convois for Amboina assembled.
All going to plan
2CVL, 2 CVE and 6BB in support. Should suffice - he is somewhat focused on Malaya with his air assets.

Southern Fleet:

All is ready - waiting for support TFs.

4th Fleet:

Baker invasion on its way (2 days). Troops for Canton Invasion making ready. Wake "secured" (Mines, Aircraft etc)

China:
A somewhat sore issue.
I managed to clear my lines of communication. And I am concentrating my "manouvering" forces west of Shanghai - attacking towards Nanchang. We will see. The evacuation of Ichang has worked. The place is untenable.
My opponent is concentrating his forces around Nanchang and Ichang. Fine.

Hong Kong:
Still holds - but is now down to 2 Forts - there is hope. If my own forts in China serve as well as those in Hong Kong - which I kind of doubt - nothing can happen.
Hordes of Sallys and Sonias are all over the place, having a field day.

Thats it for now.

Cheers

[VSWG]

ORIGINAL: vonSchnitter
[...] I told him, he can use subs for refueling his PTs [...]

[X(] [X(]

Thanks for telling me!! Brilliant ideas, I'm taking notes...

[vonSchnitter]

Reports for 12/30/41

Luzon - Naga and Lingayen taken as planned.

Mindanao - Landing at Davao on the way. My innitial landing force is a little weak - contrary to recon info. Will have to make another Bombardment and send in the "floating" reserve afterwards.

Borneo - Landing at Kuching on the way, troops on the beaches. Should be taken next turn.

Malaya:

First attack on Taiping scored very well. Should be taken next turn.

One thing though: Allies send in some 60 4E bomber against Alor Star at 2000ft !
There are no restrictions in the House Rules - I relied on some common sense. Lets say I am a little surprised to see the contrary.
I kind of feel inclined to make some para-drop on top of his units in Malaya to stop them moving.

Cheers

[vonSchnitter]

Tokyo: 1.1.42

The new year has started with some succeses.

Taiping, Baker Isl. and Kuching are taken.

My opponent has tried to stop my landing at Kuching with a combined Surface fleet of RN, dutch and USN ships.
Turned out as a tactical draw - however, my troops continued with landing, even though one transport TF was badly mauled. He really got lucky not to encounter my BB TF - just my CAs attacked. And of course, neither the Nells/Bettys in Indochina cared to attack, nor did the Subs on picket score. Well that is life. At least I did not loose warships. And Kuching is taken.

He has some DDs left behind at Kuching - will take care of them asap.

Reinforcements in Davao are hitting the beaches.
Troops have arrived at Kendari and a CVL TF is send out to probe Amboina.

KB has bombed Canton Isl. and cought 2 transports in port. No allied fighter support.

The next attack on Hong Kong is on its way (the fivth I believe)

I hope to start my offensive in the south of China soon.
The 31st Div. is now on its way to Hanoi - just as a kind of security measure.

With 2.05 changes and no Kwantung Area Troops in China, the best hope for the Japanese are the trenches dug around the cities. We will see.

I have held back most of my air assets so far. But his previous big attacks on my airfields in Malaye are still quite troublesome. Fighters are in somewhat short supply.

More to come.

[vonSchnitter]

Tokyo 1/3/42.

This game is turning a little to much to the maniac side of things - for my liking.

Menado was taken on Jan 2nd. Good enough. However, an allied surface TF turned up at Menado - 1 CA, 1 CL 4DD - all got sunk. But putting one BB and 4 DDs of mine out of use (1 DD sunk) - engaging 6 BBs and about 14 DDs. Nothing serious mind.

And his parking of Subs in my Bases is well ... - yep my fault not to mention it in the house rules. Those subs do not cause much damage - but give some good recon. Crafty - sure - but wacky in my book. But again - not against the house rules.
Anyway the 5th attack on Hong Kong failed - but is now down to 1 Fort.

He is busy bombing Kuching - to keep the airfield out of service. Fine.
Another ground battle on the west coast of Malaya is in the making. I am confident.

Lucena should fall with this move. Moving onto Clark field.

I have now 3 Brigades, 5 Divs, 2 Tank Reg. plus command units west of Shanghai - and I kept bombing his concentration there. Needless to say, these units received my best commanders. I am quite interested in the result.

Cheers

[SamCole]

What happened? In Prez's thread he says you surrendered?