To Plan or not to Plan

[Bil H]

I'm doing a study... I'm interested in how long people spend in planning. Lets pretend the scenario has you in command of a Brigade sized force.

How long will you spend in planning for the battle?

Thanks, Bil

[devoncop]

Not that it is helping me overmuch so far [&:] , but I spend at least 45 minutes to an hour noting the ground,strengths and weaknesses of my forces,lines of sight and vital bridge crossings and junctions before getting going, but maybe I am just slow!
Amazing game by the way.
Best wishes
Ian

[Robin le guetteur]

Me too, I can spent very long time at the beginning of a scenario.
First, I sight-read the scenario meticulously, noting all the details or keys to understand the situation. Some details in this text is the occasion for me to visit the objectives, viewing the ground around them, checking my force and view how many and where reinforcements will arrive, understanding the OOB, searching the supply unit and supply entry point, understanding the road network for the supply or the main line of attack or retreat, etc. It can take half an hour to understand the generalities of the situation.
Next, I check all my units to well known each part of my force : best units or commanders, movement type, vehicles if any, etc. This is the step for me to start to map out a general strategy. Then, I study the map closer to view where are the best place to put some units in defense or the best way to attack, I compare some possibilities and I start to give order and recompose my units in brigade "ad hock" if necessary or to detach my artillery to put them at the best place. A this step, I spent more than one hour on the scenario without let the game begin to run...
When all is all right, I unpause the game at slow speed, but for 5 or 10 minutes only, to adapt my plan if I have new infos on the enemy force. At this step, I know that all my decisions are definitive, I know that all changes after the first hour on game is fatal, so I check again all my orders and sometime make some little or big changes.
So, it take a long time, but these phases are still the game. It is how I like to play with what I call a Real Wargame with a very large part to assign to strategy and tactics.

[Banquet]

With HTTR I used to jump straight in but with COTA I find I'm spending a while planning. Charge of the Centaurs I spent an entire evening planning and never actually pressed the start button - that was about 5 hours. That was a bit exceptional though!

It's half the fun, actually. The terrain is perfect and mixed mode movement is the cherry on top. The exit tasks and variety of different types of objectives mean there is a lot to think about.

If only the battles actually went as I'd planned them I'd be a bloody genius!

Edit, to answer the queston more directly - for a brigade sized force I reckon about an hour.. 30 mins if I'm in a rush and 2-3 hours if I'm really in the mood for details.

[Vance]

For planning I use about an hour easily.

What I am missing during this time is detailed info about reinforcements. I know when they are expected, how many units a reinforcement has, but not what the composition of the reinforcements is.

I have run senarios doing nothing until all reinforcements arrived. Inspected the the reinforcements did the planning and restarted the senario. Of course I don't do this with reinforcements arriving over a couple of days. I do this with senarios with a big landing on the first day. I think it is resonable to know the composition of your reinforcements, and it has a big effect on the planning.

[JeF]

I usually don't take time to plan much.

As soon as the scenario starts, I have a look at each objectives, where are they, at what time do the start/stop, what are their values, occupation or completion.
That and the quick look at the map (roads, crossings, elevations, built area) help me to find my axis of advance.

Then I browse through my available forces and planned reinforcement. I decide the timing for my advance mostly with my reinforcement schedule.

Finally I break my forces in the groups I will command, usually the already available Bn or Bde. I can attach engineers or AT assets here and there. Something more fancy would need too much thinking...

And that's it.

I don't think I take more than 15 minutes. I like the action more than the planning.

Cheers,

JeF.

[Real and Simulated Wars]

I am not trying to be an smart @ss, but :

"Therefore no plan of operations goes with any degree of certainty beyond the first contact with the hostile main force."
Moltke, Military Works. Volume IV, Operative Preparations for Battle, Harry Bell's translation

I believe in it. I plan in big strokes. The majority of time I spend before the battle is not actually planning but inspecting terrain and own forces.

[Robin le guetteur]

ORIGINAL: Chelco

I am not trying to be an smart @ss, but :

Missed.

[:D]

Seriously, of course, every armchair general know that. You only forget that everybody is not the son of Alexander or Napoleon. So, as apprentices, we need to plan, to plan a lot, to have a large choice of strategy to be able to choose the good one during the battle when it's time to change our strategy because of the events.
What I search while planning, it's not really to find answers to questions like "how to win" the battle or "how to succeed" in taking an objective. In fact, I don't search answer but questions. Something like "what could happen" that prevent me to succeed in an objectives or another, or "what is the worst thing the enemy could do against me in this theater of operation, etc.

So, dear friend, in my case, even if I am not Moltke, my attitude is certainly not naive but pragamatic, flexible, adaptative, imaginative, creative... and surely, very very, "but alors" very modest.
[&:]

PS "are you "big moustache" ?

[Crimguy]

ORIGINAL: Robin le guetteur
You only forget that everybody is not the son of Alexander or Napoleon.

Speak for yourself[8D]

I spend approx. 15 minutes looking things over. Compare objectives, figure out which ones I want and which ones are secondary. Figure out path(s) to get to objectives, whether I'm going to split my forces. Find spots I need to place defenses to protect flanks. Check out reinforcement schedule, and figure them in. That's it.

[Real and Simulated Wars]

 
Plans that surive first contact:
http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA383584&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
 
 
 
 
 

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: Vance

For planning I use about an hour easily.

What I am missing during this time is detailed info about reinforcements. I know when they are expected, how many units a reinforcement has, but not what the composition of the reinforcements is.

I have run senarios doing nothing until all reinforcements arrived. Inspected the the reinforcements did the planning and restarted the senario. Of course I don't do this with reinforcements arriving over a couple of days. I do this with senarios with a big landing on the first day. I think it is resonable to know the composition of your reinforcements, and it has a big effect on the planning.

Good idea.

TT3010 - UI - Reinforcement List - Show composition of each entry

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: Chelco

 
Plans that surive first contact:
http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA383584&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

Hey this should make an interesting read! Thanks. [:)]

[Grotius]

I spend maybe half an hour at the start of the scenario, and probably insufficient time once things get going.

[Widell]

Cobra Aus has developed a set of templates for WitP which I find useful for almost all types of operational planning. I admit I don´t fill them out and have them beside me when playing, but I try to consider the areas mentioned before starting the game. I tend to plan more when I play human opponents, and I also try to document in simple AAR's as that helps me avoid the "random clicking" strategy

Have a look at the templates here. It´s two MS Word files, so a very small download. I am also attaching an immensly more detailed template I found at some US military site a long time ago. It´s for the true planning grog, and not for the faint of heart Please note, you need to change the extenstion from GIF to DOC to make it work. Had to rename it so it would be allowed to upload....

Enjoy

[Robin le guetteur]

ORIGINAL: Chelco
Plans that surive first contact:
http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA383584&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

Wonderfull !

Thank you very much, Chelco. [;)]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

ORIGINAL: Robin le guetteur
You only forget that everybody is not the son of Alexander or Napoleon.

Speak for yourself[8D]

I spend approx. 15 minutes looking things over. Compare objectives, figure out which ones I want and which ones are secondary. Figure out path(s) to get to objectives, whether I'm going to split my forces. Find spots I need to place defenses to protect flanks. Check out reinforcement schedule, and figure them in. That's it.

Ditto....15 minutes at the most, more like 10 for me. I'm too impatient to test my decisions to wait an hour to implement them.

[Vance]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

ORIGINAL: Vance

For planning I use about an hour easily.

What I am missing during this time is detailed info about reinforcements. I know when they are expected, how many units a reinforcement has, but not what the composition of the reinforcements is.

I have run senarios doing nothing until all reinforcements arrived. Inspected the the reinforcements did the planning and restarted the senario. Of course I don't do this with reinforcements arriving over a couple of days. I do this with senarios with a big landing on the first day. I think it is resonable to know the composition of your reinforcements, and it has a big effect on the planning.

Good idea.

TT3010 - UI - Reinforcement List - Show composition of each entry

Yeah, I have my own TT.

I think the easiest way to implement this is to include the reinforcements in the OB tab and mark them someway as reinforcements. Double clicking a reinforment in the OB tab could switch to the reinforcement tab and vica versa. This way the OB tab doesn't get cluttered with arrival information.

I also would like destroyed unit to stay in the OB tab marked as destroyed. This way you know what you lost. Double clicking could lead to the cross on the map, and clicking the cross to the OB tab.

[Bil H]

Interesting responses fellas, keep them coming please!  [:)]

Here is one of my favorite quotes on the subject:

In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable. Dwight D. Eisenhower

Bil

[Helpless]

hope that someday i'll be able to plan the invaison timeline as in adv. manual [&o] [8|] [:)]

otherwise it is still mostly reactive play, i.e. short initial examination with a lot pausing after that [:D]

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: Vance
Yeah, I have my own TT.

I am afraid that normal copyright rules apply and that the above TT was, is and will always remain the property of Panther Games Pty Ltd. However, make me an offer and I'll see what I can do. [;)]

I think the easiest way to implement this is to include the reinforcements in the OB tab and mark them someway as reinforcements. Double clicking a reinforment in the OB tab could switch to the reinforcement tab and vica versa. This way the OB tab doesn't get cluttered with arrival information.

Yep excellent.

I also would like destroyed unit to stay in the OB tab marked as destroyed. This way you know what you lost. Double clicking could lead to the cross on the map, and clicking the cross to the OB tab.

TT3012 - UI - OB Display - Include Reinforcements and Dead units ( suitably highlighted )

See now you are responsible for two. Keep 'em comin'. [:)]