The Load Counter, does it really work?

[mikwarleo]

I don't know about other people but I don't find that the multiplayer load counter works at all? I've tested it when I was sus on one of my opponenents and I don't seem to get any results. Do other people find it works? Does it need to be enabled or something?

[JanSorensen]

The load counter (often) stops working if you upgrade to a new version and continue games that were started with an older version.
 
Could that explain what you are experiencing?

[Forwarn45]

I think this is a bug that was never fixed. In my experience, the load counter has worked fine with about 60-70% of my opponents. The other times it has not worked at all. I think it might have to do with the way your operating system's set-up, not necessarily a problem with the game itself. Interestingly - as I've found in multi-player games - once it stops working it won't work for any of the players.

[Forwarn45]

On a side note, I hope they go to something like an independent die-roller for PBEM in the sequel. I feel that nearly all my opponents in the many games I have played are fairly honest - but there was one a long time ago where I thought he had unusually and consistently good luck. [;)]

Anyway - over the many months I played in PBEM, I got to play with opponents that I liked and trusted. But it would be nice to have a better security feature so you can feel confident and trusting right away.

[mikwarleo]

Jan:

I checked out the version issue: Of 4 games I'm currently playing the load counter is only working in one of them. I can confirm that 3 of them everyone started with 1.202 (including the only one where the load counter works)...

How often does it work for you? Everytime?

Forwan:

Trusting your opponent or not nothing beats the piece of mind of knowing you're both on a level playing field without dreaded replays. There's no second chances in war... no opportunities to move that essential supply/unit you forgot about, no chance to change your strategy if you don't like the way one turns out after you commit.

I always feel more relaxed in my games where the load counter works ... it always seems my opponents have a higher level of defeats, disasters and problems in their overall strategy. They also commit more forces to attacks. Hard to prove but just the feeling I get. Either way, when the load counter is working and your opponent kicks your butt at least you never have to 'wonder', just congradulate them... maybe I'm 'untrusting'.

For my money, fix the little gismo.

M

[Forwarn45]

ORIGINAL: mikwarleo

Trusting your opponent or not nothing beats the piece of mind of knowing you're both on a level playing field

I agree and would actually like to see an improvement for the sequel. I mentioned an independent die roller as a possibility. Although most people are honest and I trust the people I have regularly played with, it took a while to build up that trust. If in the course of a game - your opponent never has any bad luck - then you would start to wonder!

[Timmeh]

I go into pbems without the expectation that every player and every turn is rightous and it doesn't bother me one way or the other. However, I'd like to play in tournaments or ladder leagues but wont put the effort in just for that reason.

Does matrix games operate a die roll server for any other games? Cause thats what it would take to achieve the level of integrity being discussed here.

If they don't, maybe we should start our email campaign right now ! If you think about it it might be good for their sales numbers aswell if they offered a service like this?

[mikwarleo]

A game server would be nice but I doubt it will happen.

The load counter actually works quite nicely *when* it works...

I'm still waiting to hear from moderator/admin or someone else 'in the know' about the problems with the load counter...

[PanzerKampfwagen]

And we thought everybody was basically good at heart....

....Come to think of it, better have a few traps ready for the bad guys.

And traps that actually function the way they're supposed to.

[mikwarleo]

Well you've obviously never played counter-strike...

I've never really understood cheating in games myself but I always feel better when I know its less likely. I trust most people otherwise I'd never play but still even then who's to say there isn't a change 'here and there' when there's something that could have gone better?

Really though, all this discussion is entirely beside the point. The load counter is there for a reason. All I'm trying to figure out is why it doesn't work for me and if this is something that happens to everyone? And can it be fixed?

[PanzerKampfwagen]

I've never really understood cheating in games myself but I always feel better when I know its less likely.

Yes, that's very much so with me, too. I'm naturally a very suspicious person, so I guess I really don't trust anybody except those whom I definitely know aren't going to play me false. However, as for everyone else, I do like to know that they aren't pulling the wool over my eyes.

[mikwarleo]

Yup... so what I'm wondering is when the power that be are going to give an answer on this...

[Joel Billings]

I don't have any information regarding the load counter at this point. Based on your experience, it sounds like it doesn't work all of the time. This isn't surprising since it has a history of being flaky. Recently we put a few additional checks into the security system in A World Divided and we're testing that now to see how it works. If it makes things better with the load counter, we'll hopefully find a way to patch the changes back into World at War at some point in the future.

[mikwarleo]

Ok thanks for posting on this. It's a good little feature when it works, looking forward to having it 100%.

[Roghain]

I am not entirely sure there is a NEED for the load counter? I mean, what's there to stop a person from simply re-using the original, e-mail attached savegame?
Let's face it, there will be people who abuse any niche, and there are people who are worth playing with. No matter how good you make a system, it will be abused by some. *shrug* Their loss - eventually people will no longer play with dishonest people.

[mikwarleo]

Again, this is not the point of my tread. This thread is solely concerned the issue of whether it works properly or not. If you want to debate wether or not we need a load counter please start another thread. The load counter is already there. For me at least it is a welcome addition and the reasons behind its inclusion are clear.

And, just for the record, if you re-load from email deleting the origional, or if you make a copy or some such thing and then attempt to play it will trip the load counter.

[GeneralPatton]

I haven't paid too much attention to the load counter because it doesnt usually seem to work. However I think on one of my recent games I loaded the game and then before taking any moves I found out I had to leave so when I go to exit It asks to save the game - I select yes (heck it won't let me exit the game unless I say yes). After I reload the game and play my turn and save it, the load counter is Germany 2. It seems to me since I did nothing nefarious that having the load counter indicate 2 isn't very useful. Even if someone were to play half a turn - save the game and then finish the turn later, I think the load counter shouldn't count against the player.

Thats my 2 cents.

[mikwarleo]

I think the problem here is more that you're not really understanding how the load counter works...

It already works the way you say it should, let me explain:

When you exit a PBEM game mid-game the message is, "Save PBEM game before exiting. Exit now?" ... it is a bit ambiguous, actually it is only a warning message, it has no other function. What it means is *you* need to save the game before you exit in PBEM games or it will trip the load counter.

So from what you've said it seems to me what you've done in the example you gave is this:
Start a PBEM game. Save the game. Reload. Play on. Exit mid-turn without saving. Reload. Then when you go to save the counter will read 2. Which will reduce to 1 *after* you save. So the counter will the report the correct number of reloads (i.e. one) when your opponent receives the save.

The way the counter works is it increases by 1 every time you load a game and decreases by one every time you save the same game. Thus it is always ultimately zero if you don't exit without saving. Hence the warning. You don't have to save over the original file to maintain this either. For example, when you load a saved PBEM game, when you return to the save screen if you select the same file you'll see that the load counter for the file is at 1, if you save over this file it will return to 0 and thus shows that you haven't replayed anything. If you save it as a new file the new file reload counter will be at zero for the new file while the original will be at one because, of course, you reloaded this particular file and didn't save (to that file) any progress you made. This stops people getting around the reload counter and there are several stops like this that the developers have built into the tool. You would of course send the new save (with reload counter at zero) to your opponenent.

This works very well imho to stop people from replaying battles or turns and records it if they do. The problem I'm raising is that sometimes the counter doesn't work at all, meaning it doesn't record any reloads. When this happens in a game there will be no reload counter at all for your entire PBEM campaign. Also it seems once the reload counter doesn't work for one person it doesn't work for every person playing the game. I've started games there the reload counter was working and when it came back to me it wasn't working any more. I've also played games where it worked the whole way through. So in my experience it work intermittently and I'm suggesting it would be nice if they could fix the gliches.

[Roghain]

And, just for the record, if you re-load from email deleting the origional, (snip) and then attempt to play it will trip the load counter.

I see no such thing? I tried doing that and (though cumbersome) it is entirely possible to abuse the system this way. So, it isn't easy, it is a pain in the proverbial, but it can be done if some unwanted result does arise.

[mikwarleo]

So, you played a game after downloading the email. Then redownloaded the email. Then played some more. Then saved. Yes? When you first open the re-downloaded file it will show reload counter zero. However, when you go to reload the file you save after this kind of re-download/re-play you'll see the reload counter says 2. At least it does for me.

[>:]