Grand Campaign - Any bugs left?

[WITPgamer]

Maybe I should get a refund then [:'(]
 
Seriously though, I never said I was waiting for a bug free game.  I have been waiting for a game that doesnt have bugs that ruin the game play experience as this game origionally had, in my opinion, at time of release.  Most developers can pull this off, so I dont see why these guys cant, or hanvt already for that matter (as I said, I havnt played it for some time). 

[mogami]

Hi, I've played over 20 pbem games since 2004. Not one ever ended because of a bug. My 3 current games all began in 2004 and are bug free. 
 
Of course all 3 games are mild compared to others.  They are in mid-late 1943 now.  Japan is on the defensive.  Nothing not occupied by Japan in actual war has been occupied (except for Port Moresby)
 
 

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: WITPgamer

Most developers can pull this off, so I dont see why these guys cant, or hanvt already for that matter (as I said, I havnt played it for some time). 

Exactly. WitP is like no other game. It's full of tons of spaghetti from older games, and is balanced on the edge of a giant razor blade, permanently close to disaster. But oh, what a long way it's come.

I think you should start playing. You might find you have less to bitch about than you think.

[mogami]

Hi, You know this has gotten me thinking. Perhaps I should start a thread thats asks
"I posted a bug report"
1. It turned out to be a bug and was fixed
2. It turned out to be a bug and has not been fixed
3. Mogami showed me what I was doing wrong and everything was fine.

I've been looking at files from people with problems for over 2 years and I don't think more then 3 of them have actually been bugs.

"My aircraft will not fly naval strikes"
1. They are on a size 1 (or 0) airfield
2. Range is set to 0
3. airfield too small to fly extended range and all targets beyond normal range
4. No supply
5. No targets (enemy TF not spotted in search phases)
6. weather over targets or airfields (often when "clouds off" selected.

My TF will not lay mines
1. TF contains no minelayers
2. TF not set to "retire"
3. No mines on ML and homeport too small to provide reloads and no MLE present

My TF will not sweep mines
1. Not set to "do not retire"
2. There are no mines in that hex

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: WITPgamer

Most developers can pull this off, so I dont see why these guys cant, or hanvt already for that matter (as I said, I havnt played it for some time). 

Exactly. WitP is like no other game. It's full of tons of spaghetti from older games, and is balanced on the edge of a giant razor blade, permanently close to disaster. But oh, what a long way it's come.

I think you should start playing. You might find you have less to bitch about than you think.

Hi, where do you get your notion that WITP has code from any game other then UV? Nothing in WITP is even close to Pac War. Not production, not supply not movement. The scales are changed the menus are changed. Plus I don't think C+++ was even around when Pac war was written but I might be wrong there.

[Terminus]

Erm, I honestly thought that the game contained code from Bombing the Reich... Never said that it contained PacWar code (that's pretty preposterous).

[mogami]

Hi, That would be news to me.  (never played BTR) I know early in testing someone mentioned that having aircraft frames and engines was along those lines but BTR had many other parts.  It may contain the same design idea but I don't think any code was lifted. who wrote the code for BTR?  (same desginer and same programmer might give you totally new code but with familiar features)

[Terminus]

BtR was designed and programmed by Grigsby and Brors.

[WITPgamer]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I've played over 20 pbem games since 2004. Not one ever ended because of a bug. My 3 current games all began in 2004 and are bug free. 

Of course all 3 games are mild compared to others.  They are in mid-late 1943 now.  Japan is on the defensive.  Nothing not occupied by Japan in actual war has been occupied (except for Port Moresby)

Are you still using the origional release code though? My problems had nothing to do with the game mechanics you mention above. I had land units and many aircraft simply disappearing, something which was confirmed by others on the forum at the time. I remember the last problem I had was with regards to aircraft disappearing whilst being transported if I recall correctly, though its a long time back now.

Anyways, at the time I found these frustrating to the point where I decided to give it a break. Im hoping all is well now but wanted to get peoples opinion before starting a campaign.

[mogami]

Hi, well that makes sense. Gary and Keith work together doing the routines and Mike writes all the interface. All the post release work was done by Mike.  So before release everything the player does is Mike and most of what occurs under the hood is gary and keith.  (I think) All the add ons however are Mike. (and now Joe and Don)
 
I was a programming novice when I started testing but have gained a greater understanding of the process. I will say I would really like to see what the design document for WITP looked like before programming began. (It must have been a monster)

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: WITPgamer

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I've played over 20 pbem games since 2004. Not one ever ended because of a bug. My 3 current games all began in 2004 and are bug free. 

Of course all 3 games are mild compared to others.  They are in mid-late 1943 now.  Japan is on the defensive.  Nothing not occupied by Japan in actual war has been occupied (except for Port Moresby)

Are you still using the origional release code though? My problems had nothing to do with the game mechanics you mention above. I had land units and many aircraft simply disappearing, something which was confirmed by others on the forum at the time. I remember the last problem I had was with regards to aircraft disappearing whilst being transported if I recall correctly, though its a long time back now.

Anyways, at the time I found these frustrating to the point where I decided to give it a break. Im hoping all is well now but wanted to get peoples opinion before starting a campaign.

Hi, My 3 current games all started prior to release of first patch. There has been at least 1 game that went from 1941 to 1945 and many games are now into 1944. I've never had any airgroup vanish while in transit (unless AK was sunk)

It has always puzzled me why some computers run a program without problem while others constantly screw up. (I ran WITP for 2 years on a system below specs without problem)
I'd just bring my version up to date and try a new game against AI to see if old problems were still present. If you do have a problem. Send me your saved game file.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: WITPgamer

Most developers can pull this off, so I dont see why these guys cant, or hanvt already for that matter (as I said, I havnt played it for some time). 

Exactly. WitP is like no other game. It's full of tons of spaghetti from older games, and is balanced on the edge of a giant razor blade, permanently close to disaster. But oh, what a long way it's come.

I think you should start playing. You might find you have less to bitch about than you think.

Hi, where do you get your notion that WITP has code from any game other then UV? Nothing in WITP is even close to Pac War. Not production, not supply not movement. The scales are changed the menus are changed. Plus I don't think C+++ was even around when Pac war was written but I might be wrong there.

Don't know about tons of spaghetti (though would be nice when we programmer types get hongry) but an old programmer adage goes something like "amateurs write code - professionals cut and paste". [:)]

C++ was first used outside the labs in 1983, but then I don't know when PAC War was written.

[ctangus]

The biggest bugs left are my own stupid operational decisions. I'm hoping someday Joe & Don will bulletproof the game against me! [:'(]

Kidding aside, the game's very playable right now. Worst thing left, IMO, is the "synch bug" in PBEM but that's easy to work around. Any annoyance that causes is far outweighed by the enjoyment I get from the game. Any other bugs I've noticed myself or read about on the forums are trivial IMO. There are a couple areas where the design could be better, but that's to be expected in a game of this size. While others may disagree, I'm willing to chalk up oddball results to the vagaries of war.

In short - play it! [:)]

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Don't know about tons of spaghetti (though would be nice when we programmer types get hongry) but an old programmer adage goes something like "amateurs write code - professionals cut and paste". [:)]

Absolutely. My old C teacher said exactly the same thing, and I lived by it when coding. Never learned to code very well, but that's a separate issue.

[Caltone]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Don't know about tons of spaghetti (though would be nice when we programmer types get hongry) but an old programmer adage goes something like "amateurs write code - professionals cut and paste". [:)]

Absolutely. My old C teacher said exactly the same thing, and I lived by it when coding. Never learned to code very well, but that's a separate issue.

Ctrl-c
Ctrl-x
Ctrl-v

That's a substantial amount of my keystrokes every day [:D]

[dtravel]

And good professionals cut-n-paste code that works.  [;)]

[Farfarer61]

OMG I learned more from this semi-sarcastic post on actually how play the game thatn many others! retire, not-retire hmmm...

[Captain Cruft]

It doesn't matter where the WitP code came from, or who wrote it and in what language. Things like "why expose a variable if we can  hard-code it", associated liberal use of magic numbers and, most of all, the miniscule, poorly designed and fixed size database are cardinal sins which just should not exist in any serious code produced since about 1985. Yes, Mr Gates, we will want to use more than 640kb of RAM!

That's not to mention the almost total lack of tools and documentation. It is inconceivable that the makers did not realise that people would want to "mod" this game. So, what do we get? The "Scenario Editor", which I suspect could be usefully employed in programming courses as a world class example of how not to make a user interface.

The laziness has no excuse.

--
After which, I will say that Don and Joe are making superb efforts into bashing the appalling thing into some sort of shape, for which they should be roundly thanked. Who knows, when we get to about version 2.0 I may even return to the fold.

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft
Things like "why expose a variable if we can  hard-code it", associated liberal use of magic numbers and, most of all, the miniscule, poorly designed and fixed size database are cardinal sins which just should not exist in any serious code produced since about 1985.

And here is why people think the code for WiTP is reused source from 20 years ago. [:'(]

[mogami]

Hi, Crown of Glory is about fighting battles. everything else is to make the battles fit the story. COG is not about economy, not about diplomacy. These features just impact where and when and between whom battles are fought. If you are not interested in fighting detailed battles your missing much of the point. COG is a battle generator.

There is nothing wrong with WITP. The distractors don't care what code it was written in or how old it is. They don't agree with the results. If WITP made them happy it would create an equal number of new unhappy users. Rather then adapt to what is they continue to harp for what they think should be. They never offer "how to" only "this should be the result" And unless the system is changed they remain opposed. (They never think what they would have without it)