Knowledge Base - Migrating HTTR Scenarios to COTA

[Arjuna]

BTW re the long delay experienced when opening an old HTTR map in the new MapMaker. There are no significant delays when opeing COTA maps in the COTA MapMaker. The delay only occurs when the verification code detects a non-standard map and does it's best efforts to convert it. This was not the intent of that code - ie to convert files. That it survives is testimony to its robustness. So I take umbridge at your implication about our programming practices.

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

I am not surprised there are problems but I have said all along that we are not supporting this.

Also, I emplore people who want to make these HTTR conversions to wait for the new WF estabs to make their appearance. These include updated Market Garden estabs developed with the supply rules introduced with COTA. See my (apparently ignored [;)]) post above.

[blairfw]

Dave, I agree that MapMaker proved quite robust. The fact that the unresponsive long delay caused myself and others to give up is more of a shortcomming than a poor programming practice. Furthermore, I am aware of PG's stated limitations and wish to continue to support your advancement of the art. Just keep trying and improving! I don't expect perfection in your current product. The long wait for the COTA supply model and other advances alowed me to get my hopes up and gave rise to unwarrented expectation. I am failable, I even have many poor programming practices under my own belt.

To the extent that the pique was a result of unwarrented criticism you are entitled to your umbrage.

[blairfw]

simovitch, I recall those posts and believe they were suggestions not restrictions. You seemed concerned that incompatible scenarios would get distributed but not supported. I build for my own amusement so your advice didn't seem to apply.

I am still puzzled why COTA using HTTR Estabs should crash rather than just work badly, i.e. not have enough trucks, or couldn't get up a hill because of mixed-mode movement etc. What capabilities were explicitly removed from the COTA engine? That would be interesting and helpful to know? Removing capabilities, flexability and checks in the interest of speed is a likely reason. Changes to the doctrine to reflect the new setting are things I would need to know for effective play or scenario development. To give a specific for-instance: What has changed about HTTR ENG units that made them so incompatible when other units seemed to be accepted?

When IP based restrictions are the cause for reductions in clarity, and flexability my vendor loyality is reduced.

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: blairfw

...I build for my own amusement so your advice didn't seem to apply.

Cheers to that

I am still puzzled why COTA using HTTR Estabs should crash rather than just work badly, i.e. not have enough trucks, or couldn't get up a hill because of mixed-mode movement etc. What capabilities were explicitly removed from the COTA engine? That would be interesting and helpful to know? Removing capabilities, flexability and checks in the interest of speed is a likely reason. Changes to the doctrine to reflect the new setting are things I would need to know for effective play or scenario development. To give a specific for-instance: What has changed about HTTR ENG units that made them so incompatible when other units seemed to be accepted?

These are good discussion question(s) blairfw and ones that I personally have no ansewer to. And since the programmers are not supporting the HTTR-COTA compatibility, these questions are (unfortunately) likely to remain rhetorical.

[PaulWRoberts]

I had high hopes for converting the HTTR scens to COTA simply because I wanted to try them with the new supply rules.  Given that (if I read things rightly) the HTTR scens will be pretty easy to carry over into BFTB, and that BFTB is to be out in less than six months, I'm willing to wait.

For what it's worth, I hope the BFTB team does whatever is reasonably possible to make the scens compatible in that engine.  It would be a shame to lose all that Market Garden research and flavor!

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: blairfw

Dave, I agree that MapMaker proved quite robust. The fact that the unresponsive long delay caused myself and others to give up is more of a shortcomming than a poor programming practice. Furthermore, I am aware of PG's stated limitations and wish to continue to support your advancement of the art. Just keep trying and improving! I don't expect perfection in your current product. The long wait for the COTA supply model and other advances alowed me to get my hopes up and gave rise to unwarrented expectation. I am failable, I even have many poor programming practices under my own belt.

To the extent that the pique was a result of unwarrented criticism you are entitled to your umbrage.

OK fair enough. Let's move on.

[wodin]

I have my money on a Spring or Summer release for BftB.

[Arjuna]

wodin,
 
Yeh well Xmas is our summer mate! [:'(][;)]

[wodin]

As the bulge game is delayed its a shame this project wasnt carried forward.

[PaulWRoberts]

Well, it was discovered that COTA crashes when engineers from the HTTR estabs are used in a scenario. But Arnhem scenarios wouldn't make much sense without engineers.

Still, I suppose debate could begin about how to implement the new engine features into revised old scenarios when Bulge comes out. For instance, what kind of supply settings and such should be used for various HTTR scenarios?