Tactical Question

[Stalintc]

Ok I have a situation here that puzzles me:

I know there is a large task force with long range missiles in the vicinity, I have a rough location on them using a submarines hydrophones, they ARE within missile launch range.

An enemy fighter happens on the position of one of my ship groups, it is identified as a hostile mirage2000 fighter and poses no threat on its own to my group.

My group is at a totally passive emcon level.

The enemy fighter is within SAM range and can be engaged with a high Pk.

Do I:

-Up radars and go for the kill
-Keep radars down, and hope he comes within AA range for optical weapons

I am not sure if the relay of information from that fighter is enough for the enemy task force to launch its missiles against me, this is what is hindering my decision process. If the fighter can see me and provide enough information for a launch what reason do I have not to go radars up and blow him out of the sky?

My task force consists of smaller ship classes no larger than a frigate or destroyer, with limited point defence capabilities against a medium scale missile attack. No ECM is available to me, the enemy task force is also not within my SSM launch capabilities.

Any tactics or info someone can provide me with here will be of great help, I am not sure what to do, but I must make a decision, I at least want to base it on some good advice and information to give the best possible resullts in this bleak situation.

I need to keep my ships alive long enough so that I can join up and form a more powerful task force, weaken their strength with a torpedo assault and limited air attack, then strike the final blow with my new task group. (This is my overall strategy)

[Dimitris]

By the time the Mirage comes within optical AA range, the pilot will already have detected & identified your ships and will have relayed the information to the enemy heavy shooters. (Assuming day, clear conditions).

The key question is how likely the Mirage is to detect your ships. Knowing its exact sensor capabilities is important in this case. For example, if its radar lacks a surface-search mode then the range at which he will get a nod of you is severely reduced (he'll have to rely on optical or EO sensors, both of which are short-ranged and heavily dependent on weather). There is a good chance he may pass quite close and not see you, particularly at night or in bad weather conditions.

OTOH, if he has a surface-search mode and seems to be heading your way (and his radar is radiating) he's likely to become a real problem soon. In that case it is best to intercept him before this happens. Ideally you want to nag him with an aircraft so that the ships can remain in EMCON. If no air assets are available then there is no choice but to engage with SAMs. Choose your longest-range SAM shooter (or the one situated closer to the projected path of the enemy aircraft), and when he's within engagement range (preferrably well within the theoretical SAM range), activate ONLY the specific ship's radars and engage. After the shootdown is complete, shut off the radars and make sure all the ships clear the launch point at flank speed, just in case someone got a whiff of the whole action and has pinpointed your location.

[jkruny]

Hey,

I agree with Sunburn on his points. I am assuming that you do not have any air/air capable a/c available.

In addition, I have on occasion detached a SAM shooting capable unit, and changed the course of the main body to gain some seperation. Then if the a/c gets close enough to get a visaul ID (assuming no surface search radar capability), I light him up and let him have it, going immediately EMCOM tight after, and then taking evasive action with the SAM shooter, again with the intent of gaining seperation from the main body.

This is of course my own way of doing things in Harpoon. I tend to break large task force formations down into individual ships anyway, for the most part. Micromanagement is heavily ingrained in me after many many years of playing Harpoon.

[Stalintc]

Both your answers are excellent and very precise, thank you very much for your input [&o]

It seems unless that Mirage has not actually seen my task force, I might get away with it, if he has it looks like a missile launch may be un-avoidable, I will watch him very closely. It is currently not emitting so I think I can assume he has not seen my task force yet.

My aircraft came pre-fitted at the start of the scenario with ground attack loadouts, the only aircraft which are capable fighters in my arsenal are mirage2000's, which are now on 25 minute readiness because I am having them refitted for CAP and Interception duty. My first wave of Hawker Hunters has levelled their ammo depot and revetments and also knocked out a SA-2 site. Another flight is on-route to finish off the hangers, runways and C&C buildings. I hope to stop\reduce the air threat this way.

But no I have no capable\ready interception aircraft at my disposal.

It's looking like I will have to take the SAM shot and run like crazy.

But at least now I can make a decision based on your expert advice and not just stab in the dark without knowing the possible outcomes or options.

Thanks again!

[hermanhum]

If you think that the enemy is going to spot you, then you give away nothing by going active. It all depends on when you think that Mirage might spot you.

Here is one tactic you can try. When you believe that you are about to be detected, you may have to sacrifice ONE of your ships by ordering it to go active and blowing the intruder from the sky. That is the price of war. You sacrifice one to protect the others. Even if it is counter-detected and massacred by SSMs, it should (hopefully) draw most of the attention away from your other ships. It's a cruel equation, but the survival of the most....

[Stalintc]

ORIGINAL: hermanhum

If you think that the enemy is going to spot you, then you give away nothing by going active. It all depends on when you think that Mirage might spot you.

Here is one tactic you can try. When you believe that you are about to be detected, you may have to sacrifice ONE of your ships by ordering it to go active and blowing the intruder from the sky. That is the price of war. You sacrifice one to protect the others. Even if it is counter-detected and massacred by SSMs, it should (hopefully) draw most of the attention away from your other ships. It's a cruel equation, but the survival of the most....

The problem being my vessel with the longest reach and most effective SAM system is also the ship with the longest ranged SSM's, if this vessel is destroyed 25% of my final punching power has been eliminated. The other three ships in the group are armed with either optical gun systems or short range heater SAM's.

In this essence I think im f**ked, unless I can get lucky [8D]

I see what you are saying and it is truely excellent advice, but im not sure if the gambit for the final outcome is worth it. I will take another look at the scenario in a while and take everyones suggestions into consideration, this is a TOUGH choice to make.

But thankfully because you are all so helpful that choice a little easier to swallow thanks!!

[Stalintc]

Well heres the result.. and its sad [:(]

my vessels must have been spotted before that mirage got there.

7 minutes into the scenario and 21 otomatII A missiles had already been launched destroying 2 fast attack vessels 1 Frigate and all of the transports I am required to get to safety as per the mission req's

At the start of the mission there is nothing to cover the transports from missile attack and the nearest SAM cover umbrella is 20 - 30 minutes away which was destroyed in the first few minutes anyway...

The mission is a failure.

However the airstrike on the enemy airbase went as planned all anti air assets were destroyed, the ammo dump, hanger and revetments were destroyed also. For the loss of one attack aircraft out of 10 which was to a SA-2 guideline SAM.

I dont see how this scenario is possible as Eqaudor, the missiles must have been on their way since pretty much scenario start, the air defences available were VERY insufficient considering the threat. Plus no fighters were able and ready from the get go.

The scenario was from the global conflicts 1 battleset - A Naval Border War - Played as Eqaudor with the ANW ODB

Thanks to you all for your advice, sadly nothing could have averted the disaster I feel [:(]