CVE Nassau and VR squadrons

[Cathartes]

Anyone know what the deal is with these VR squadrons is? I get 24 or each (F4F and SBD), but I can keep adding planes and pilots to swell their ranks even though they are stationed on the USS Nassau which I just gleefully received. What is the capacity of the Nassau--seems to go up as I add planes? I added about 14 more F4Fs before I wondered if I was screwing something up--and I could have kept going.

Also, how come the pilot experience is only 40?!

Using NikMod and 1.801.

Thanks,
Cathartes

[dtravel]

The VR squadrons are Replacement Squadrons.  They will fill up to 54 planes each.  You use them by putting the CVE in a Replenishment TF and they then provide replacement aircraft for other carriers' airgroups.  (At least that's the theory, not sure how well it works.)
 
WARNING: WHAT EVER YOU DO, DO NOT MOVE A VR SQUADRON OFF A CARRIER!

[ckk]

btw don't worry about the experience of the pilots on the VR squadron's the pilots when they are on the ships they are replenishments fot will be the experience of USN pilots[:)]

[bradfordkay]

Cathartes, you don't want to think of using the CVEs with VR squadrons as combat TFs. Think of them as AEs for your CV squadrons. The VR pilots are of much too low experience to try to perform combat operations en masse. Instead you want them to replace lost pilots in your experienced frontline carrier squadrons.

[Cathartes]

Thanks for the info and advice on not moving the squadrons off carrier.  Very helpful.

So this begs a question... were CVEs used only in repleneshment role?

[Andy Mac]

Ummm CK thats not my experience 30 xp pilot on CVR become 30 xp pilot on CV those CVR's are a menace IMO they suck up naval pilots at an alarming rate 108 to refill each one is damn near 2 months worht

[tabpub]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Ummm CK thats not my experience 30 xp pilot on CVR become 30 xp pilot on CV those CVR's are a menace IMO they suck up naval pilots at an alarming rate 108 to refill each one is damn near 2 months worht

Andy:

Yes, the initial #'s on some of the repl. groups are low; all the more reason for a "controlled burn off"; get some losses (in a relatively safe area) and replace from repl groups. the new 30-50 pilot hides amongst the experienced CV pilots.
Meantime, your repl group refills plane and pilot, but this time, pilot is from pool and should be a 50-60 pilot as normal.
Then, park your CVE(R)'s until you absolutely need them, not just cause their handy to have around. Better to take your replacements directly from the port in most cases anyhow, as you have access to the named pool then.
And don't allow the squadrons on the CVE(R)'s to refill auto; set on no replacement and do by hand to level that you can live with.

[ckk]

Thanks tab My bad for not explaining what I meant[:@][:o]

[anarchyintheuk]

ORIGINAL: tabpub

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Ummm CK thats not my experience 30 xp pilot on CVR become 30 xp pilot on CV those CVR's are a menace IMO they suck up naval pilots at an alarming rate 108 to refill each one is damn near 2 months worht

Andy:

Yes, the initial #'s on some of the repl. groups are low; all the more reason for a "controlled burn off"; get some losses (in a relatively safe area) and replace from repl groups. the new 30-50 pilot hides amongst the experienced CV pilots.
Meantime, your repl group refills plane and pilot, but this time, pilot is from pool and should be a 50-60 pilot as normal.
Then, park your CVE(R)'s until you absolutely need them, not just cause their handy to have around. Better to take your replacements directly from the port in most cases anyhow, as you have access to the named pool then.
And don't allow the squadrons on the CVE(R)'s to refill auto; set on no replacement and do by hand to level that you can live with.

I think I get this . . . if you use the cve(r)s in a historical manner expect ahistorical results, so don't use them, right?

[tabpub]

I think I get this . . . if you use the cve(r)s in a historical manner expect ahistorical results, so don't use them, right?

No. Just that with the advent of the "named pool" I believe that it is better for USN CVs to replenish from a proper base port rather than the CVE(r) groups. ex. Essex lost some 15 pilots in addition to 20+ planes; replenished from port and it drew from the named pool, so got some very experienced pilots instead of the generic 60 types.

But, if there is no port handy and you just have to have planes/pilots right now, the CVE(r) is a nice force multiplier.

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: tabpub

I think I get this . . . if you use the cve(r)s in a historical manner expect ahistorical results, so don't use them, right?

No. Just that with the advent of the "named pool" I believe that it is better for USN CVs to replenish from a proper base port rather than the CVE(r) groups. ex. Essex lost some 15 pilots in addition to 20+ planes; replenished from port and it drew from the named pool, so got some very experienced pilots instead of the generic 60 types.

But, if there is no port handy and you just have to have planes/pilots right now, the CVE(r) is a nice force multiplier.

Also the Named Pilot Pool is being removed in the next patch.

As for the VR squadrons themselves, it appears that the special code for them is not as bullet proof as could be desired. Most of the problems can be avoided by just never removing them from their home carrier (as mentioned earlier [:-] ) but there are occasional oddities reported. They are only marginally useful anyways IMHO. The usual limiter on carrier operations isn't losses but sorties. You tend to run out of ordanence for your planes long before you run out of planes and for that you have to go back to port. (I don't know if AEs help here, I don't think anyone has had a game go long enough to find out.)

[bradfordkay]

" So this begs a question... were CVEs used only in repleneshment role? "


No, there are quite a few CVEs with regular VF, VB and/or VT units aboard. It's just the ones with the VR squadrons that are used as replenishment carriers.

[tabpub]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

ORIGINAL: tabpub

I think I get this . . . if you use the cve(r)s in a historical manner expect ahistorical results, so don't use them, right?

No. Just that with the advent of the "named pool" I believe that it is better for USN CVs to replenish from a proper base port rather than the CVE(r) groups. ex. Essex lost some 15 pilots in addition to 20+ planes; replenished from port and it drew from the named pool, so got some very experienced pilots instead of the generic 60 types.

But, if there is no port handy and you just have to have planes/pilots right now, the CVE(r) is a nice force multiplier.

Also the Named Pilot Pool is being removed in the next patch.

Boo...I trust that at least they will return to the regular pilot pools. I will have to wait and see; other wise I will lose around 300 naval pilots it would seem.

As for the VR squadrons themselves, it appears that the special code for them is not as bullet proof as could be desired. Most of the problems can be avoided by just never removing them from their home carrier (as mentioned earlier [:-] ) but there are occasional oddities reported. They are only marginally useful anyways IMHO. The usual limiter on carrier operations isn't losses but sorties. You tend to run out of ordanence for your planes long before you run out of planes and for that you have to go back to port. (I don't know if AEs help here, I don't think anyone has had a game go long enough to find out.)

I don't remove them; though watch out, you can still add planes to them over 54 by hitting get plane button, don't know if that messes them up, have one squadron with 55 now...
I don't agree; last invasion I covered, LBA attacks attrited fighter groups by around 30-33% airframes. Without CVE nearby, it was a bothersome trip back to port 6 hexes away or more to refill, and then they are damaged. With them, I was up and still running the next day for combat; and I had to hang about in case enemy carriers/surface showed up in strength. And I hadn't used many sorties, as I was waiting for naval targets in the main. Personally, I like them.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

" So this begs a question... were CVEs used only in repleneshment role? "


No, there are quite a few CVEs with regular VF, VB and/or VT units aboard. It's just the ones with the VR squadrons that are used as replenishment carriers.

THis is correct and is worth really noting. There are quite a few CVE that are not just replinishment carriers. There of course is the Long Island which is basically a transport for planes.

THere also are CVE with fully operational and well trained squadrons that are to be used as true escorts. They provide cap and close air support for amphibious landings. Other uses include ASW patrol and recon. They are usually too slow to be put in an air combat fleet though.

As a side note, watch the reaction range carefully on those CVE TFs. In a game against the AI I had one TF with 4 CVE that charged off after the KB. I of course lost evry carreir and half my escorts.

[goodboyladdie]

I too have just received this CVE and intend to keep the group size at 24 each and use it as a convoy escort until I need it to support sustained operations by my Fleet Carriers. At that stage I intend to use it for it's designed purpose (if I don't have to run away before I need the replacements...)

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

I too have just received this CVE and intend to keep the group size at 24 each and use it as a convoy escort until I need it to support sustained operations by my Fleet Carriers. At that stage I intend to use it for it's designed purpose (if I don't have to run away before I need the replacements...)

I wouldn't try to use it as a convoy escort. I seem to dimly recall reports that indicated the VR squadrons won't fly normal missions.

But if you do and it works, please, let us know.

[Hoplosternum]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

I too have just received this CVE and intend to keep the group size at 24 each and use it as a convoy escort until I need it to support sustained operations by my Fleet Carriers. At that stage I intend to use it for it's designed purpose (if I don't have to run away before I need the replacements...)

I wouldn't try to use it as a convoy escort. I seem to dimly recall reports that indicated the VR squadrons won't fly normal missions.

But if you do and it works, please, let us know.

I think they will fly normal missions. Well CAP at least. But of course 24 fighters and 24 Dive Bombers or Torpedo Bombers is 48 Thats about the limit of my maths [:D]) And thats way over the CVEs maximum of c.30 so nothing will fly a mission except a rebase. So you need to remove one or other of the squadrons.

I have not decided on the ethics of doing this, might be considered a gamey move by some? Not sure. They are pretty useless as replenishers and you seem to have far too many and get them too early for the couple of times you might potentially use them in that role. But you are no longer hard up for hardware as '43 comes around and these start arriving usually.

Using the squadrons from land bases would certainly seem to be gamey. They should grow quite big and would seem to give hundreds of 'free' naval attack planes. But not sure about using the CVEs as conventional CVEs for CAP and ASW purposes in Convoy defence?

[saj42]

ORIGINAL: Hoplosternum

I think they will fly normal missions. Well CAP at least. But of course 24 fighters and 24 Dive Bombers or Torpedo Bombers is 48 Thats about the limit of my maths [:D]) And thats way over the CVEs maximum of c.30 so nothing will fly a mission except a rebase. So you need to remove one or other of the squadrons.

I have not decided on the ethics of doing this, might be considered a gamey move by some? Not sure. They are pretty useless as replenishers and you seem to have far too many and get them too early for the couple of times you might potentially use them in that role. But you are no longer hard up for hardware as '43 comes around and these start arriving usually.

Using the squadrons from land bases would certainly seem to be gamey. They should grow quite big and would seem to give hundreds of 'free' naval attack planes. But not sure about using the CVEs as conventional CVEs for CAP and ASW purposes in Convoy defence?

If you let them restock some CVs so the total of both VR units drops to 34'ish then you could use then in a conventional role (remebering to keep repalcements set to OFF [:D] )You could then train the 36 Exp pilots through TRAIN, CAP and ASW missions (or on-map training programme from the CVE) to make them quite useful - eventually.

[Cathartes]

ORIGINAL: dtravel
WARNING: WHAT EVER YOU DO, DO NOT MOVE A VR SQUADRON OFF A CARRIER!

Ok, I've been warned, but what will happen if I do?

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Cathartes

ORIGINAL: dtravel
WARNING: WHAT EVER YOU DO, DO NOT MOVE A VR SQUADRON OFF A CARRIER!

Ok, I've been warned, but what will happen if I do?

Bad things, very, very bad things.