Have patch 1.05 with some quirks. Can anyone offer a later one for me to chew on while I await?

[Cal]

Have my original (still working) 80's vintage SSI game I've played numerous times on my (still working) Apple II. Was thrilled to see the Talonsoft 1999 rework. Last run with version 1.0 was about 2004 when I played the Axis against the AI to see what I could do with jets and TA152's.

About November of '44 had some 7-800 Me-262 but had only converted three groups. One quality and two below average as test units. Stopped converting when it became evident that jet groups could not return to pistons and refused to shoot. Flying regularly for six months they had claimed one or two P47's while counter attacking. Maybe these where the jet bomber versions - no guns?

The TA152's showed up but with a planned production rate of 20 per day they spent months trickling in at maybe 5-10% of that rate. Beat up the allies anyway using mostly FW190D's to drive away escort fighters and then HE219's to kill bombers. Avoided using day fighters against heavies as the defensive fire was brutal. Stopped building ME410's at around 4-500 as bombers where getting maybe 1-1 kills on them too.

Sometimes resorted to 3 plane suicide missions to kill off retarded leaders in an effort to refit shot up groups - with mixed results. Firing squad would be appropriate...

Learned of the existence of patch 1.05 and had to give it a go. As the Germans again I thought I would try skipping the whole FW190 path and quickly set up about a 20 plane TA152 design rate. Come maybe June '44 and my TA's planned for maybe Jan-March are nowhere to be seen. So, quick scramble and half their effort is switched to FW190D's. Allies didn't hit my industry, did it myself! DO335's show up about August and do really bad stuff to the already sorry Allied effort. The ME262 makes a showing this time but can be tricky. Yea finally got TA152's but in trickle mode again... Oh well.

Had to resort to converting my armaments and aircraft components back and forth on two occasions to prevent the 2 pts per turn Allied auto defeat (Hey, I want to check out this German hardware!). OK, allied 2pt defeat pending. It is Nov '44 and the allies have lost some 50k planes to 9k Axis. Park this game and try playing as the Allies! (Is the Bulge modeled in Dec '44? - maybe need to revisit here...).

Hmm.

Lost three groups (9-10 squadrons) on creation of 15th AF. Thought 1.05 fixed this? June 1944 and 8AF has only 14 FG assigned - rest still with 9th AF? Will this correct? One of ten Med Command bomber units (flying B24's) just vanished. German engine production bombed and held to an estimated 40-45. Aggressively attacking FW190D's that did show up about March. At May 1st 1944 Axis industry damage is at 20 with rubber at 250-260 and armaments reporting -0- (should be reduced but not sure what to make of this). Have been hitting ground troops to see if tank and artillery can be starved. (skeptical on troop bombing - noticed that as Axis the AI never dropped a bomb on my troops in Italy and Rome still fell before D-day).

Introduce mandatory Overlord targeting at 1 May which now ties up 8th AF and Bomber Command <UNTIL 1 July 1944!> -when 8th is finally released (BC still fixated!). By now with Germany off limits for two months all is repaired and we have a new game! So here I am August 2006, and SHAEF has murdered my air war! What now...

Hey, I know most or all airfields where targeted before Normandy but radar and random (vs known occupied) airfield bombing is in most cases a wasted effort in the game as these points are very numerous and fix very quickly. There just are not evident worthwhile targets in France and Italy besides the railyards (and larger industry if not precluded by restrictions).

Not done with this game yet - and awaiting the Matrix release!

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Cal
&nbsp;
good post
&nbsp;
some of the "odd" things were fixed in the OOB not in the patches
&nbsp;
hmmm, never seen the 262 not be able to attack, they are normally pretty dang good vs Bombers, but lousy if they get bounced by fighters
&nbsp;
some of scoring, and Manatory targeting has been fixed, so bugs were found and corrected
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152's
well from long ago tests, it is a nasty plane, the 335 is a very nasty plane too !
&nbsp;
in this game, if you can build it, it will build, there are other things out there that may effect how many you should be able to build, getting built, but over all, if you can, and every else is right, you should get the planes
&nbsp;
(I have been able to get the Mc 202, D 520, MS 406, Ta 154, the He 219, the IAR 81 to build and those were some of the ones that had hassles before)
&nbsp;
I know we talked about Sudden Death, but can not remember what we did about it (lol) but will double check to see if is a on the list thing or a finished thing
&nbsp;
the OOB should help some, bigger and better and more, the trick is, can we get the AI to use it and use it right, we do see where some of the AI stat's it can pick are decent ones, and some are murder, the trick is to stop it from going for the wrong ones (list thingy)
&nbsp;
new fuel system, should help, the ranges should work out much better then before, training system, waypoints, sweeps, how the raids are handled, should also help
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FB's are not sitting ducks anymore, they can still get bounced and toar up, but they can also fight back, and at times do a good job at it, besides being able to fight on the way in
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more targets, the Coast with England has more targets to chose from, and some are decent ones, fuel, oil, ports, Chem
&nbsp;
more targets in the Med also
&nbsp;
basicly, the Axis has Fighters, heavy fighters, Twins and then Jabos and Trainers, most GE fighters can be used as fighters, or changed to heavies (190 R1, 109 R6, 190 R8), the Twins can be deadly or deadmeat, plus they can be made into Heavies also, but don't let the Allied fighters see them, Jabos are really ground attack units pressed into air to air duty, they are stuck with Jabo type planes (until late war) but Jabos will have there uses, they can carry extra rockets, Trainers, well, they are what they are called, they are there to train the pilots, later on, they can upgrade to a better plane type, hopefully with some pilots who can now fly them, keep them away from battle, and they may turn out okay, but...
&nbsp;
that may be HARD to do
&nbsp;
Alt will be importent, some planes fly better down low, others up high, and some, are best right in the middle, put Mustang I's at 35000 and they run into some 109 H's they are going to be in big trouble, the P-38H at 25000 or so and it runs into some 109 G's is also going to be in trouble, but watch out if those 109s&nbsp;run into P-47s or P-51s
&nbsp;
and Spits come in all flavors and types, low, medium and high, some have short range and others have long legs, some can bomb and some can dance all night
&nbsp;
those lost FS, it was a bug, that wasn't suppost to be a bug that ended up being a bug, it is fixed
&nbsp;
some units were set up to be pulled out of the OOB and then returned later with a different plane set or type
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
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[Cal]

Thanks for reply Hard Sarge

Do I understand correctly that you have taken up this project that JCL so ably evolved over several years?

Have read many forum posts on this game over the years as sites have changed. Good stuff. You here summarize some of the more juicy refinements looks like.

That ME262 problem only happened to me in version 1.0 . I went strait from 1.0 to 1.05 but somehow missed the OOB patch (1.05 did change some plane stats).

Do I understand correctly that there was a patch 1.06x5 or such? Did it contain all upgrades or was it required to run separate patches?

Can I obtain the last patch (or patches)? My version 1.0 CD is alive and well.

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Cal
send me you email address and I can see if I can send you some of the stuff you need
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and over all, yes you would be correct
&nbsp;
I left some of the good stuff out, got to have some surprises for the beta testers to be shocked at
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&nbsp;

[Cal]

Hi Sarge

Semper Fidelis and Marine Corps forever. Nation be proud.

Happy to send my email here in the open 'cause I think I trust the camp, and anyway can burn bad tracks if it ever comes to that.

I am johnmstrong@sbcglobal.net

I am plowing ahead (late June 1944) as the Allies in spite of SHAEF intent to defeat me. I have transfered five of my best British Med squadrons with Mustangs to 15th AF to cover for my three missing fighter groups. Am subsequently able to use same AF to drive into southern Germany/Austria to work over Munich and other southern German RR targets to prevent a default defeat due to the current 8th AF and BC prohibition on injuring anything German (Bomber Command has had a strict no civilian targeting policy to date. Perhaps I should, given the situation, and the periodically odd nature of the French, just trash 'em?) . 8th AF is detouring over the Dutch-German border before striking anything on the Normandy list so as to draw up German fighters. This is working. Think the German group quality is sagging but they still are putting up many planes... And killing P51's going home like they are lame squash.

Throwing up Spitfires on sweeps to add confusion and cheeper targets is really fun. These puppies will quit mission to hit just about any useless airfield or RR yard. If there are juicy German planes as targets we make one sweep and beet feet, but if no useful targets and much flak, we persist to strafe with no remorse until no serviceable attacking plane is left! Only an AI could conceive of this path!

So you work with what you have...

[Cal]

Hey

I would love to sign on for beta testing. At 43 years of wargaming, I am a salty dog...

-j

[Hard Sarge]

on the way, follow the insturctions and all should be well
&nbsp;
yea that 15th was a pain
&nbsp;
took a lot of work to get that fixed, over and again
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&nbsp;

[Cal]

Thank you Sarge

Am running VPC on a MAC Powerbook. Will run the patch and see how it works and get back...

Thanks again

[Cal]

Hi Sarge

Should I start my game over? I am getting trashed. Thank you to Harley and his editor. I have my 15th AF fighters back but I am at 2 Jul 44 and still locked into Normandy targeting. What about giving me an autopilot routine to make the software happy to take out whatever it wants, losing or destroying whatever of my camp it wish. Then I can resume playing the game after it meets the required sacrifice or demands... I have two months of game time and no control to speak of. Only allowed to bomb junk. This is just programed lose the game...

Tell me I have lost it...

-j

[harley]

set your own mandatory requirements - add a raid to an overlord target, add some fighters, then retarget it to a strategic site, preferably a big one.

No-one will blame you for working around the mandatory restrictions like this...

and you just gave me an idea for the new version - but I'll keep that under my hat...

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Cal

Hi Sarge

Should I start my game over? I am getting trashed. Thank you to Harley and his editor. I have my 15th AF fighters back but I am at 2 Jul 44 and still locked into Normandy targeting. What about giving me an autopilot routine to make the software happy to take out whatever it wants, losing or destroying whatever of my camp it wish. Then I can resume playing the game after it meets the required sacrifice or demands... I have two months of game time and no control to speak of. Only allowed to bomb junk. This is just programed lose the game...

Tell me I have lost it...

-j

well, the patch will work with the saved games, but the OOB will not, so if you want to play with the newer OOB it will take a new start

we fixed some bugs that were in the old Mandatory targeting, that should make it easier to break out of it, but...

if you are able to use BC, use them to hit Large RR/Area, that will keep the damage score up, as long as you do not get to sudden death, you have not lost

once the break out happens, you will gain a lot of space and then can move into France and really start to tear up the target area

or as Harley says, you can plot a target with in the rules, and then just reset the target to what you want, it is a little gamey, but not much, alot of times early on, when you get hit with Manatory UFac or something, GE would be shocked in with clouds, so target a UFac then replot to somewhere in France

[Hard Sarge]

Which as I was saying about one of the bugs, targets that are shown in the Overlord listing, now when they take damage, it shows up and counts in the Overlord listing
&nbsp;
start of game Overlord is at 4% damage, ran a test run, and I was able to raise the damage level to 7%, pretty much by hitting radar and ports
&nbsp;
so the Manatory targeting should able to be kept with in reason
&nbsp;
&nbsp;

[Cal]

yigiddy yigiddy yiggidy back to ya!

Hello HS and Harley, down under and over here and anywhere else...

Well, 'tis time to restart, while savin' the old stuff. Much new food HS has sent including very much the expanded German inventory, and the tools Harley has made possible. Shall start as the German to see if I can sort out and utilize this inventory. Pen and paper still have a large place in my box of tools!

HS:
You said you can build MS406 and IAR80/81. Do not see these in my buildable inventory. Not that I think I want any mind you... Is there a build thingy I am missing? I do see I am going to be able to build at least some of the PARTS!

I trust some of the stuff you bring up is not yet in what I have(!!!). Like, I have no longer, the Mustang I in my inventory (will not miss it), and will need to see if aircraft altitude abilities are in play in any big way. The later adds complexity but is very substantive...

Just spent the last week looking at what remains of the ezboard site. Skipped the JCL reads when the old boards required a registration and log in thing some years ago. I just went onward with the game...

Think I can finish a German game, then an Allied one, before the big release?

yeah,

yigiddy!

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Cal
&nbsp;
think you misunderstood some of what I was saying, in the new verison, we got the MS 406 and others to build, they were blocked in out in the old game
&nbsp;
the same with the Alt mods and what not
&nbsp;
the OOB will give you a much better set of planes to work with and the map many more and better targets (which there will be even more when the new game is ready)
&nbsp;
a new German and Allied game completed, my I really hope not !
&nbsp;
I really do need to get some sleep sometime soon
&nbsp;
&nbsp;

[General]

Sorry to divert from the original thread. Any chance you are the Hard Sarge from Fighter Ace?

[Hard Sarge]

You got me
&nbsp;
current nick is BANZAI_HD_Sarge

[General]

You shot me down enough to remember! Is FA still running? I haven't played for a couple of years. What online flight game would you suggest if I got interested again? Salute!

[Hard Sarge]

Salute !
&nbsp;
yea, FA is still up and running
&nbsp;
I never really tried any of the others, I do like IL-2 FB, but only for offline flying, the SA stinks big time in the game
&nbsp;
you cheat, you need to give up your old nick [:-]

[General]

1.5 - 2.0 the_wind77

2.0 - 3.0 _wind77

3.0 - 3.5 franklymydear

~S~

[Hard Sarge]

Salute !
&nbsp;
Hi Wind
&nbsp;
didn't you like the 38 oh way back when ?
&nbsp;
I always liked the 109 F, but my Squad ended up keeping me in a Tiffy, of course, later on, the George was my main ride
&nbsp;
I remember one time in Real, being in a rush, I had thought I grabbed a Tojo to go after some one who was trying to pick on us, only to find out later I had gotten a Oscar, never did live that down, fighting Tempys in a Oscar
&nbsp;
of course, the bad part is I was was winning, but man, them things took a ton of ammo to bring down
&nbsp;
LOL
&nbsp;
Remember old Slugslime, I knew once the 262 came out, that would be his plane of choice, only his pattern of flying didn't change
&nbsp;
them were the days mate, them were the days
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