Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
One way or the other, game mechanics must be changed.
- Less deadly A2A
- The ability to give attack priorities
- The ability to order attack groups to break of attacks if the enemy is too strong
(E.g Ignore losses, limit losses, recon attacks..)
- The ability to set certain hexes as off limits for bombers in order to avoid strong enemy CAP
ORIGINAL: pauk
ORIGINAL: PzB
I think Matrix has to implement some changes Chez. They have done a marvelous job at fixing this and updatingthe game, but this has mostly been based on feedback from 42-43 games. What I would like to know is how difficult it would be to actually implement them and how likely it is that action will be taken....
I agree 100 %. It is not about stoping Allies in 1944 it's all about delaying them - i'm not asking for sinking Essexs in late period war but torp or kamikaze would be nice and possibly delay Allies for couple of weeks. I understand your frustration after countless failed strikes which just producing more Allied aces and i don't think i would start another WiTP game if somethings doesn't changes in A2A combat model (the only other choice is going for AV, but i never interested in that).
Ok, the question is is there something you can do it right now. I think that your only opportunity is to do what you've done in Marians - strong and experienced CAP since fighters on escort will be eaten no matter how experienced they are. I know that means no offensive missions but it seems that this is the only way...
Recent Andy's moves showing we were right - he is moving on Borneo-Java axe. If he tries to invade Java (somehow i feels that he could skip this option and go for northern Borneo, Thailand or Malaya; Palembang is very likely target too) you could use base NW of Soerbaja (Maedion?) which can not be reached from sea. Massing 300-400 hundreds crack Georges and Franks on CAP could scare him*
Not disputing that A2A losses are sometimes a problem in the game when large numbers of planes are involved... However, during the carrier raid on Luzon and Formosa (Oct 11th to Oct 15th 1944), the Japanese (JAAF and JNAF combined) lost 438 planes in A2A combat and 366 planes were destroyed on the ground (Japanese losses on Formosa on 12th Oct alone: 193 A2A, 123 destroyed on ground). Combat losses of the USN carriers involved were 25 planes between Oct 11th and Oct 15th).
[Japanese loss figures put together from interrogations of Japanese staff officers after the war]
ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez
There's no disputing that US CAP and flak took a very heavy toll on attackers but it seldom shot down every single plane that attacked and AFAIK it never succeeded in preventing at least few aircraft getting through. Excluding Kamikaze raids, losses were probably more on the order of 30-50% which is certainly unsustainable for an attacker.
Over Japan proper, there were at least 2 US carrier raids where the Japanese defenders managed to shoot down more than they lost.
Even Andy agrees that Allied CAP is much too effective.
Chez
ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
Hi,
the results of a single game give not enough evidence for complete deductions(IMHO).
In my own PBEM (Oct 1943 currently) my adversary managed to penetrate my CAP with some Betties when I invaded Port Moresby some months ago. He suffered heavy losses (due to lots of P-38Gs and Wildcats providing LRCAP over the Invasion TF), his escorts (Zeros and some army planes) were slaughtered by my CAP but the Betties still managed to torpedo one DD and an AK. And I did not shoot down every single enemy plane, even some Japanese fighters survived.
There're many AAR's out here were you can see similar results.
K
ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
Ubercap comes from placing all your fighters on 80-90% CAP. Let him place 50 or 60% CAP and I am willing to bet that some a/c start getting thru. No guarntees of course, but it sure would help some. I know for a fact that Andy is using 80+ CAP on his CV's. I got this from looking at the a/c totals he was putting up and not from reading his AAR. Plus other comments he has made elsewhere.
I think if he would just drop his CAP to 60% everything will be much more enjoyable for both sides.
I never run my CV's as the IJN with over 60% CAP. I will place long range CAP over them at times to boost numbers. And I almost always get leakers in the early days of the war.
There're many AAR's out here were you can see similar results.
<G>ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
ORIGINAL: pauk
ORIGINAL: PzB
I think Matrix has to implement some changes Chez. They have done a marvelous job at fixing this and updatingthe game, but this has mostly been based on feedback from 42-43 games. What I would like to know is how difficult it would be to actually implement them and how likely it is that action will be taken....
I agree 100 %. It is not about stoping Allies in 1944 it's all about delaying them - i'm not asking for sinking Essexs in late period war but torp or kamikaze would be nice and possibly delay Allies for couple of weeks. I understand your frustration after countless failed strikes which just producing more Allied aces and i don't think i would start another WiTP game if somethings doesn't changes in A2A combat model (the only other choice is going for AV, but i never interested in that).
Ok, the question is is there something you can do it right now. I think that your only opportunity is to do what you've done in Marians - strong and experienced CAP since fighters on escort will be eaten no matter how experienced they are. I know that means no offensive missions but it seems that this is the only way...
Recent Andy's moves showing we were right - he is moving on Borneo-Java axe. If he tries to invade Java (somehow i feels that he could skip this option and go for northern Borneo, Thailand or Malaya; Palembang is very likely target too) you could use base NW of Soerbaja (Maedion?) which can not be reached from sea. Massing 300-400 hundreds crack Georges and Franks on CAP could scare him*
Not disputing that A2A losses are sometimes a problem in the game when large numbers of planes are involved... However, during the carrier raid on Luzon and Formosa (Oct 11th to Oct 15th 1944), the Japanese (JAAF and JNAF combined) lost 438 planes in A2A combat and 366 planes were destroyed on the ground (Japanese losses on Formosa on 12th Oct alone: 193 A2A, 123 destroyed on ground). Combat losses of the USN carriers involved were 25 planes between Oct 11th and Oct 15th).
[Japanese loss figures put together from interrogations of Japanese staff officers after the war]
ORIGINAL: Przemcio231
Well i wounder if the Jap players are crying when their Zero Cap is killing everything in the Early part of the War... any way im playing one game as Japan and im in June 1943 as for now my planes are quite good ageainst US Navy and Lightnings... i never faced Mr. Corsair Trough as im keeping my distance from this Menace[:D][:D][:D] leatly i shoot down about 100 US Navy Fighters Loseing 60 A6m3a the Bettys got through and put a figh into Essex and Hornet[:D] most of the bombers made it through CAP unscratched but the AAA damaged many of them[:(]
ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
In my own PBEM (Oct 1943 currently) my adversary managed to penetrate my CAP with some Betties when I invaded Port Moresby some months ago. He suffered heavy losses (due to lots of P-38Gs and Wildcats providing LRCAP over the Invasion TF), his escorts (Zeros and some army planes) were slaughtered by my CAP but the Betties still managed to torpedo one DD and an AK. And I did not shoot down every single enemy plane, even some Japanese fighters survived.
There're many AAR's out here were you can see similar results.
K
ORIGINAL: PzB
Don't think Java can be defended Pauk, 150 enemy P38Js escorting 150 4Es is enough to smash any of the bases there regardless of how many fighters we field.
ORIGINAL: pauk
ORIGINAL: PzB
Don't think Java can be defended Pauk, 150 enemy P38Js escorting 150 4Es is enough to smash any of the bases there regardless of how many fighters we field.
Oh, that means that even crack Franks and Georges can't stop P-38J on the escort duty? In that case, placing fighters on Java would be mistake, i agree.
Can you post your industry screen when you find time? You have to be prepared for loss of the Palembang and you will have only 750 oil (Japan starts game with 750 oil) available for your industry. That means you can run 4500 HI and this small amount has to be carefully expended - mainly for ac engines and ac production.
As for the Randy, this fine ac should do fine against unescorted bombers, so keeping them in second line (important) bases seems like good decision....
ORIGINAL: pauk
ORIGINAL: PzB
Don't think Java can be defended Pauk, 150 enemy P38Js escorting 150 4Es is enough to smash any of the bases there regardless of how many fighters we field.
Oh, that means that even crack Franks and Georges can't stop P-38J on the escort duty? In that case, placing fighters on Java would be mistake, i agree.
Can you post your industry screen when you find time? You have to be prepared for loss of the Palembang and you will have only 750 oil (Japan starts game with 750 oil) available for your industry. That means you can run 4500 HI and this small amount has to be carefully expended - mainly for ac engines and ac production.
