MWiF Map Review - Atlantic Islands

[Froonp]

Some of these Islands (Canaries, Cape Verde) already appeared in the Africa thread.
Here are the Azores.

[lomyrin]

I assume Ponta Delgada is a port on both sea areas.
 
Lars

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

I assume Ponta Delgada is a port on both sea areas.

Lars

yes

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

I assume Ponta Delgada is a port on both sea areas.

Lars

In the WiF FE world, Ponta Delgada is THE unique port of the Azores.
On the WiF FE map (AiF map indeed), it is not named and it is only 1 hex.

[lomyrin]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

I assume Ponta Delgada is a port on both sea areas.

Lars

In the WiF FE world, Ponta Delgada is THE unique port of the Azores.
On the WiF FE map (AiF map indeed), it is not named and it is only 1 hex.

My question arises from the CWiF map where P Delgada is a port on both sea areas.

Lars

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: lomyrin
I assume Ponta Delgada is a port on both sea areas.

Lars

In the WiF FE world, Ponta Delgada is THE unique port of the Azores.
On the WiF FE map (AiF map indeed), it is not named and it is only 1 hex.

My question arises from the CWiF map where P Delgada is a port on both sea areas.

Lars

I do not understand the source of your confusion. Like any port hex that is adjacent to 2 or more sea areas (e.g. Gibraltar), the port can be reached from any and all of the adjacent sea areas (where the port icon is placed in the hex doesn't matter).

[trees trees]

that question will never die because on the WiFFE map most of the port symbols are very carefully drawn to indicate their connections to multiple zones. Even though buried somewhere in the rules is an explanation (maybe Batavia is the only confusing one left), even experienced WiF players get stuck on that point, until the rule is found. A definite important point in the documentation.


Might some of the Azores be mountain hexes? What a nice collection of little aircraft carriers out there.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: trees trees
that question will never die because on the WiFFE map most of the port symbols are very carefully drawn to indicate their connections to multiple zones. Even though buried somewhere in the rules is an explanation (maybe Batavia is the only confusing one left), even experienced WiF players get stuck on that point, until the rule is found. A definite important point in the documentation.

The ports symbols are not carefully placed to indicate their connections to multiple zones.
What is important is the hex in which the port is drawn that shows to which sea areas this port connects to. The port graphic is irrelevant, only the hex is.

[Froonp]

Here is what Iceland looks.

Because of its position to the north, its distance to both the USA and the UK are not well represented.
A plane wanting to make the USA - UK trip passing through Greenland & Iceland has to travel (from Boston for example) about 40 hexes to Greenland, then about 30 hexes to Iceland, and then another 30 hexes to England.

The trip from Boston to the Azores is shorter, it is about 45 hexes, can be less if flying from another place in the US or Canada, and then about 35 hexes to Plymouth.

Those distances are quite different from those of WiF FE, but they are also more accurate.

[lomyrin]

The situation with Ponta Delgada, a port on both the North Atlantic and CSV sea areas, could be compared with the port of Legaspi in the Philippines which is on a hex that has sides both in the S China Sea and the Bismarck Sea but Legaspi a port only on the Bismarck Sea.
 
I agree with this and only raise it to make certain that clarity makes it obvious to everyone from what sea area a port can be reached.
 
Lars 

[Zorachus99]

This dicussion brings up a point that Steve will have to attend to...

Rebasing German units to Brest during return to base phase from the North Sea, and then Sailing into the Bay of Biscay is not allowed. The rule preventing direct movement between the North Sea and the Bay of Biscay unless you control London is operational.  This rule has always seemed fuzzy to me...  Sneaking through Brest is something a new player always tries.

Is there some rules lawyer out there who knows more about this situation?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

The situation with Ponta Delgada, a port on both the North Atlantic and CSV sea areas, could be compared with the port of Legaspi in the Philippines which is on a hex that has sides both in the S China Sea and the Bismarck Sea but Legaspi a port only on the Bismarck Sea.

I agree with this and only raise it to make certain that clarity makes it obvious to everyone from what sea area a port can be reached.

Lars 

Good point.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99
This dicussion brings up a point that Steve will have to attend to...

Rebasing German units to Brest during return to base phase from the North Sea, and then Sailing into the Bay of Biscay is not allowed. The rule preventing direct movement between the North Sea and the Bay of Biscay unless you control London is operational.  This rule has always seemed fuzzy to me...  Sneaking through Brest is something a new player always tries.

Is there some rules lawyer out there who knows more about this situation?

The rules are pretty clear on this. If you make it into 2 naval moves, it is legal. For example, return to base from the North Sea to Brest. At the start of the next turn you can move out into the Bay of Biscay.

The restricition is to prevent someone from spending a movement point to 'touch' base at Brest and continue on into the Bay of Biscay all in one move. For example, it prevents (unless the player controls London) a naval unit with 6 movement points from moving Hamburg -> North Sea -> Brest -> Bay of Biscay with 3 MP left for patrolling.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

This dicussion brings up a point that Steve will have to attend to...

Rebasing German units to Brest during return to base phase from the North Sea, and then Sailing into the Bay of Biscay is not allowed. The rule preventing direct movement between the North Sea and the Bay of Biscay unless you control London is operational.  This rule has always seemed fuzzy to me...  Sneaking through Brest is something a new player always tries.

Is there some rules lawyer out there who knows more about this situation?

Steve is right in post 13, what he says is authorized by RAW.

In our group we play with a house rule that prevent moving from and to Brest from or into the North Sea if you do not control London (we also forbid Sea to land Operations from ships in the North Sea in England from London westwards, and in France from Calais westwards, for the side not controling London). We have the same kind of house rule for Frederiksavn and Tangier, as we find the RAW is totaly unrealistic here.

[Neilster]

I know a limerick about the Azores!

There was a young lady from the Azores
Whose...ah...um...

Actually, the rest of it is not really for polite company. [X(] [:D]

It's good though. I suppose the Bishop from Hastings with a love of young things and the old lady from Nottingham who baked cakes and put snot-in-them are out too. [&:]

Bummer... [:'(]

Cheers, Neilster

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Some of these Islands (Canaries, Cape Verde) already appeared in the Africa thread.
Here are the Azores.

[Froonp]

Might some of the Azores be mountain hexes? What a nice collection of little aircraft carriers out there.

None are all flat, but all have airports nowadays (looked up with Google Earth), so I think they can stay as Clear hexes.
They are not quite like Carriers though, because their supply hangs on the survivability of the CP sailing their Sea Area, and Naval Air missions take place before Naval movements.

But I agree their presence allows for quite a lot of potential Air Units to be based here.

The real problem is that it is too bad the WiF FE do not have a realistic rule about Portugal aligning, and about the results of an Allied DoW on it early in the war.

[JagdFlanker]

here is a great link on (amoung other things) how the allies got permission to use the azores during the battle of the atlantic. the chapters on sweden and turkey are also very interesting...

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/goldp6.html

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader
here is a great link on (amoung other things) how the allies got permission to use the azores during the battle of the atlantic. the chapters on sweden and turkey are also very interesting...

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/goldp6.html

Verrrry interestingk. Thanks.

[Froonp]

There is a flaw in the Azores depiction on the MWiF map, and I'm surprised nobody commented on it.

As shown on the picture below, the Azores are not sitting on a Sea Area boundary on the WiF FE maps. They are on the border of the paper map, but they are not on the boundary.

So I believe the Sea Area border between the North Atlantic and the Bay of Biscay should be moved 1 hexrow to the east.

Distances are right on the other hand, that is the islands do not need to be moved.

[Zorachus99]

Yea that was annoying. I think it was for air limits to move across sea boundaries? That one always got on my nerves.