MWiF Map Review - Australia & New Zealand

[Froonp]

Far corners of the world again, there are lots indeed on the MWiF map. This time this is Australia, cradle of WiF, and New Zealand.
I post them for review because many eyes are better than only a couple of pairs. If you know the land, and see wrong things, please tell me where so that they get corrected before the real MwiF map is finished.

[Froonp]

This was the desertic west coast, here is now the thriving east coast.

[Froonp]

And beautiful New Zealand.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

This was the desertic west coast, here is now the thriving east coast.

Good job as usual Patrice.

I've a special interest in this one. [:D]

Tasmania doesn't look quite right. It's probably tricky to fit onto the hex grid but the south-eastern part of the island looks like it's missing and Hobart has been moved north-west. The South East should be of special interest to you. Many of the coastal features were named during the 1791 expedition to Tasmania (then called Van Dieman's Land, the name given by the Dutchman Abel Tasman in 1642) of the French navigator Antoine Raymond Joseph de Bruni D'Entrecasteaux (1739–1793).

In September 1791, the French Assembly decided to send an expedition in search of La Pérouse, who had not been heard of since leaving Botany Bay in 1788. D'Entrecasteaux was selected to command this expedition. He was given a frigate, La Recherche (500 tons), with d'Hesmity-d'Auribeau as his second-in-command and de Rossel among the other officers. A similar ship, L'Esperance, was placed under Jean-Michel Huon de Kermadec, with de Trobriand as his second-in-command. A distinguished hydrographical engineer, C.F. Beautemps-Beaupré, was the hydrographer to the expedition.

When the expedition left Brest on 28 September 1791, d'Entrecasteaux was promoted to the rank of rear-admiral. The plan of the voyage was to proceed to New Holland (Australia), to sight Cape Leeuwin, then to hug the shore closely all the way to Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania), inspecting every possible harbour in a rowing boat, and then to sail for the Friendly Islands (Tonga) via the northern cape of New Zealand. He was next to follow La Pérouse's intended route in the Pacific. It was thought that La Pérouse had meant to explore New Caledonia and the Louisiade Archipelago, to pass through Torres Strait, and to explore the Gulf of Carpentaria and the northern coast of New Holland.

However, when d'Entrecasteaux reached Table Bay, Cape Town on 17 January 1792, he heard a report that Captain John Hunter (later to be Governor of New South Wales) had recently seen – off the Admiralty Islands – canoes manned by natives wearing French uniforms and belts. Although Hunter denied this report, and although the Frenchmen heard of the denial, d'Entrecasteaux determined to make directly to the Admiralty Islands, taking water and refreshing his crew at Van Diemen's Land. On 20 April 1792, that land was in sight, and three days later the ships anchored in a harbour, which he named Recherche Bay. For the next five weeks, until 28 May 1792, the Frenchmen carried out careful boat explorations which revealed in detail the beautiful waterways and estuaries in the area.

D'Entrecasteaux was fortunate in having good officers and scientists; the most important from the exploration point of view was the expedition's first hydrographical engineer, C.F Beautemps-Beaupré, who is now regarded as the father of modern French hydrography. The work this officer did in the field was excellent, and his charts, when published in France as an Atlas du Voyage de Bruny-Dentrecasteaux (1807) were very detailed. The atlas contains 39 charts, of which those of Van Diemen's Land were the most detailed, and which remained the source of the English charts for many years.

Beautemps-Beaupré, while surveying the coasts with Lieutenant Crétin, discovered that Adventure Bay, which had been discovered by Tobias Furneaux in 1773, was on an island which was separated from the mainland by a fine navigable channel. On 16 May, d'Entrecasteaux commenced to sail the ships through the channel, and this was accomplished by the 28th. Port Esperance, the Huon River, and other features were discovered, named, and charted, the admiral's names being given to the channel (D'Entrecasteaux Channel) and the large island (Bruny Island) separated by it from the mainland.

Also, King island (the one off the north-west coast) should be further north than the Furneaux Group (the islands off the north-east tip). I'd move the Furneaux Group so that they are all in the hex occupied by Cape Barren island (the southerly one).

Cheers, Neilster

[Neilster]

Here's a relief map of Tasmania too. Obviously it's from a more southerly viewing angle.

Cheers, Neilster

[amwild]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

This was the desertic west coast, here is now the thriving east coast.

Froonp,

This being my neck of the woods, I feel a bit better qualified to comment on this than on the other maps...

Melbourne should be moved to the bottom of the hex to its current position's top left, with the port immediately to the south, and the factory to the north. Port Philip Bay should be skewed a bit to the left so that it's upper point is beneath Melbourne's new position. The forest hex where Melbourne should go should be grassland, with the hex to the right of Melbourne and the hex above and to the right being forest.

The Hex north-west of Port Macquarie should be mountain, and all east-coast coastal hexes except those south of Canberra that are currently mountains should be forest. The mountain hexes along the east coast from the row south of Brisbane to the Melbourne row should all pretty much be duplicated in the hexes to the west. The hex to the left of that north-west of Newcastle should also be mountain.

Find a map of Tasmania somewhere, and correct the coastline, especially in the south and south-east. There's just so much distortion here... The west Tasmanian coastal hexes on the Hobart line and the line above should be forest, and the hex to the south of Hobart should be mountain.

Around where this map joins with the map in the previous post, at the bottom of the two rows of darker brown hexes, a town - Alice Springs - needs to be added. The railway runs to it. Physically it may not be big, but it is an important point of supply.

This is just the start of the changes that may be necessary here...

[Froonp]

This is just the start of the changes that may be necessary here...

OK, I felt that Tasmania was not perfect, thanks for pointing it out.
I'll consider all the changes you suggested, beginning by redoing Tasmania's coastlines.
Would that map (Google Map) be good for this ?
I think yes, and I'll use its contours to make mine.

Edit : I always begin drawing Coastlines by trying to make the real coastlines I find on maps "enter" on the hex drawn map MWiF has. Only when I find the hex drawn map really inaccurate do I change it (I did it for Iceland, northern island of New Zealand, and we did it for Scandinavia). For Tasmania I felt it was not perfect, but did not felt compelled to give it a second deeper look.

[Froonp]

I'll consider all the changes you suggested, beginning by redoing Tasmania's coastlines.

Is it ok like this ?
Especially the land cover, I may not have understood fully what you asked.

Edit : See picture next post

[Froonp]

Here are Tasmania and the Melbourne area.

I did not move Melbourne as you asked, but I think I reached the goal you indicated anyway.
I looked at Google Earth, and Melbourne seems very very big, putting it where it is not does not seems weird.
Do you live in this area ?

[Froonp]

Around where this map joins with the map in the previous post, at the bottom of the two rows of darker brown hexes, a town - Alice Springs - needs to be added. The railway runs to it. Physically it may not be big, but it is an important point of supply.

Alice Springs is not present on WiF FE maps, so I think that if the original designers of WiF FE did not put it on the map, it should not be put on the MWiF map neither.
Moreover, it's population is about 20,000 nowadays (must have been much less in the 40s) so it is far below the 100,000 inhabitants limit.

[Froonp]

The Hex north-west of Port Macquarie should be mountain, and all east-coast coastal hexes except those south of Canberra that are currently mountains should be forest. The mountain hexes along the east coast from the row south of Brisbane to the Melbourne row should all pretty much be duplicated in the hexes to the west. The hex to the left of that north-west of Newcastle should also be mountain.

Would it be possible to have a simple drawing of what you mean ?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

The Hex north-west of Port Macquarie should be mountain, and all east-coast coastal hexes except those south of Canberra that are currently mountains should be forest. The mountain hexes along the east coast from the row south of Brisbane to the Melbourne row should all pretty much be duplicated in the hexes to the west. The hex to the left of that north-west of Newcastle should also be mountain.

Would it be possible to have a simple drawing of what you mean ?

For an example of a simple drawing, you could download the map Patrice has drawn and then use Paint to mark hexes with a colored square to indicate the terrain you believe would be more accurate. The changed map could then be posted.

[wfzimmerman]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Around where this map joins with the map in the previous post, at the bottom of the two rows of darker brown hexes, a town - Alice Springs - needs to be added. The railway runs to it. Physically it may not be big, but it is an important point of supply.

Alice Springs is not present on WiF FE maps, so I think that if the original designers of WiF FE did not put it on the map, it should not be put on the MWiF map neither.
Moreover, it's population is about 20,000 nowadays (must have been much less in the 40s) so it is far below the 100,000 inhabitants limit.

For sentimental reasons (Nevil Shute's A TOWN LIKE ALICE, one of the best novels of WW2 in the Pacific), I would like to see Alice Springs on the map.

In the unlikely event that Australia falls back on a Redoubt in the Outback, it would make sense (and be fun) for Alice Springs to be a source of supply.

[wfzimmerman]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

This is just the start of the changes that may be necessary here...

OK, I felt that Tasmania was not perfect, thanks for pointing it out.
I'll consider all the changes you suggested, beginning by redoing Tasmania's coastlines.
Would that map (Google Map) be good for this ?
I think yes, and I'll use its contours to make mine.

Edit : I always begin drawing Coastlines by trying to make the real coastlines I find on maps "enter" on the hex drawn map MWiF has. Only when I find the hex drawn map really inaccurate do I change it (I did it for Iceland, northern island of New Zealand, and we did it for Scandinavia). For Tasmania I felt it was not perfect, but did not felt compelled to give it a second deeper look.

A technical question: what projection does the MWIF map use?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Mercator.

[wfzimmerman]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

And beautiful New Zealand.

It would be nice to show Gondor and Mt. Orodruin.

[amwild]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Here are Tasmania and the Melbourne area.

I did not move Melbourne as you asked, but I think I reached the goal you indicated anyway.
I looked at Google Earth, and Melbourne seems very very big, putting it where it is not does not seems weird.
Do you live in this area ?

Froonp,

I do live in this area, and this is why I think the Melbourne marker is one hex too far east - making this situation seem very weird. Port Philip bay also needs to be skewed a little to the west to match. The Melbourne port and CBD is where I have said the Melbourne marker should be. Also, over the years, Melbourne has expanded asymmetrically, the eastern suburbs expanding far faster then the western suburbs - due in part (in my opinion) to people being reluctant to drive into the sun while commuting to and from the CBD each day. Melbourne's production infrastructure in the WWII era was arrayed more or less in a ring around the CBD. Looking at any modern satellite photo, most of what you see around the eastern side of the bay is both relatively recent and is comprised largely of low-density residential areas.

Also, despite Canberra being officially Australia's capital, Melbourne was effectively capitol (or at least co-capitol) until after WWII, due to much of the infrastructure of government still being in Melbourne. Government officials would commute frequently.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra.

Also, the Great Dividing Range is rather thicker than the single line of hexes you have, and aproaches Melbourne quite closely in the north-east. Having driven around in Melbourne's north-eastern fringe and into the range over roads that were only paved or even built in my lifetime (I'm in my 30s), I can state that this is definitely mountain terrain - not even a tank could leave the roads without risking sliding downhill, rolling, or just running into a large and immovable tree, and slopes can be so steep as to make hiking very difficult. The Great Dividing Range has it's name for good reason.
However, despite the thickness of the Great Dividing Range, I don't think there should be any alpine hexsides - the mountains are covered with snow only in winter.

[amwild]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

The Hex north-west of Port Macquarie should be mountain, and all east-coast coastal hexes except those south of Canberra that are currently mountains should be forest. The mountain hexes along the east coast from the row south of Brisbane to the Melbourne row should all pretty much be duplicated in the hexes to the west. The hex to the left of that north-west of Newcastle should also be mountain.

Would it be possible to have a simple drawing of what you mean ?

I have done a bit of copying and pasting on your original map. Please ignore Tasmania and the mislocation of Melbourne.

[amwild]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Around where this map joins with the map in the previous post, at the bottom of the two rows of darker brown hexes, a town - Alice Springs - needs to be added. The railway runs to it. Physically it may not be big, but it is an important point of supply.

Alice Springs is not present on WiF FE maps, so I think that if the original designers of WiF FE did not put it on the map, it should not be put on the MWiF map neither.
Moreover, it's population is about 20,000 nowadays (must have been much less in the 40s) so it is far below the 100,000 inhabitants limit.

Alice Springs has an importance to the outback out of all proportion to its population as a rail head and source of supply. In a sense, while its official population is low, it has a vast area of extremely low density "suburbia" surrounding it, with a population that is either not officially counted as being residents, or at the time was not counted at all. In any military campaign in the deserts, it would be vital as a source of water, fuel and other supplies.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Here are Tasmania and the Melbourne area.

I did not move Melbourne as you asked, but I think I reached the goal you indicated anyway.
I looked at Google Earth, and Melbourne seems very very big, putting it where it is not does not seems weird.
Do you live in this area ?

Nice one. Tassie's coastline looks good now. The hex west of Launceston should be clear as it's rolling farmland (including my Dad's farm. Hi Mum and Dad!)

I think the Launceston hex should be mountain to represent the North-Eastern Highlands (see the relief map below) and that Launceston should be moved to the eastern edge of the (now clear) hex to its west. This would better represent the geography of the area.

The hex in the far north western tip of the island should be forest. It's tall timber country there and was even more so in the 40s. Same for the one east of Hobart and the coastal hex to the north of Launceston's current position (before it's moved as per my suggestion above).

I think the best fit for the Tasmanian mountains would be to make the Hobart hex mountain. The city lies at the base of Mount Wellington (1270m) and that mountain is just one of many that stretch away to the west and north west (see relief map). The hex south of Hobart should probably be forest rather than mountain. It has some high peaks but is mainly heavily forested hills.

Cheers, Neilster