MWiF Map Review - India & Burma

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: OgrePA

Further research shows the lake to be a result of Tarbela Dam that was built in the 1960's.  Sorry should have done some additional checking before posting.

On the contrary, your information seems to clear up the mystery of why the lake was drawn on the CWIF map in the first place. Thanks.

Partial information often helps - and the more contributors the better.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: OgrePA
Hi all.  Been checking in for awhile and thought I would try and add some opinions as I have time.
There seems to be a lake near the indicated position in Pakistan. Not sure of any details regarding the lake.
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=8000000.7049066&Y=4000000.84694275&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=mercator&db=&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=&zm=1&scale=2000000

Further research shows the lake to be a result of Tarbela Dam that was built in the 1960's. Sorry should have done some additional checking before posting.

This lake is the first one I also found, but it is not at the right place anyway.
Also, thanks for the research.

[Subetai]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but what will the leg movement cost be for swamp, given that it was only on the Asia/Pacific maps in the cardboard version and their scale has changed for MWIF? Also with Jap leg units still get a movement bonus? [&:]

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Subetai
Not sure if this is the right thread, but what will the leg movement cost be for swamp, given that it was only on the Asia/Pacific maps in the cardboard version and their scale has changed for MWIF? Also with Jap leg units still get a movement bonus? [&:]

Not sure it is the right thread neither, but I read all of them [;)].
The lev movement cost for swamp is the one of the European maps, that is 5 MP if I'm not too mistaken.
Jap leg units get a movement bonus in Jungle as in the Cardboard WiF FE.

[composer99]

ORIGINAL: Subetai

Not sure if this is the right thread, but what will the leg movement cost be for swamp, given that it was only on the Asia/Pacific maps in the cardboard version and their scale has changed for MWIF? Also with Jap leg units still get a movement bonus? [&:]

Patrice answered part of your question already, but I might add here that it was Jungle that only appears on the Asia/Pacific map - although it does also appear in the American mini-map (or the Asia-scale America in Flames map) and the Africa map.

[Subetai]

I didn't word my question very well, and I don't have any game material with me, so I'll try again:

the rules don't mention what movement costs would be for swamp on the european scale map, because there wasn't any (composer99 yes swamp does appear on other maps)(True?);

the MWIF map will use the scale from the European map, or at least something smaller than the Asia/Pacific map of the cardboard variety (True?);

if the leg movement cost for swamp on the Asia/Pacific scale map is 5 (as Patrice states), then wouldn't it be less for the MWIF map, given the change in scale?

This is of course if my assumptions are incorrect.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Subetai
I didn't word my question very well, and I don't have any game material with me, so I'll try again:

No problems [:D]

the rules don't mention what movement costs would be for swamp on the european scale map, because there wasn't any (composer99 yes swamp does appear on other maps)(True?);

Swamp on the European Scaled maps will be the same as it was on the European Scaled maps in WiF FE, that is 5 MP for leg units and 8 for motorized units. The Swamp for the Pacific maps at the Pacific Scale are 7 MP for leg units and 9 MP for motorized units.

the MWIF map will use the scale from the European map, or at least something smaller than the Asia/Pacific map of the cardboard variety (True?);

MWiF uses the scale of the European map.
More, the European part of the MWiF map is the same as the WiF FE paper map, verbatim.

if the leg movement cost for swamp on the Asia/Pacific scale map is 5 (as Patrice states), then wouldn't it be less for the MWIF map, given the change in scale?

It is 5 MP on the MWiF map, not on the Pacific maps at the Pacific scale. On the Pacific maps at he Pacific scale, it is 7 MP / 9 MP.

[Subetai]

Thank you Patrice. I just realised why I was having problems with this question.  I mean of course "Jungle" rather than "Swamp", hence my comment about the Japanese bonus. Plenty of swamp on the European map!

The heat must be getting to me. [:(]

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Subetai
Thank you Patrice. I just realised why I was having problems with this question.  I mean of course "Jungle" rather than "Swamp", hence my comment about the Japanese bonus. Plenty of swamp on the European map!
The heat must be getting to me. [:(]

OK. Jungle.
Jungle movement cost were not defined in WiF FE for Leg & motorized units, as there were no jungle hexes on the European maps.
Jungle movement cost for the Pacific scaled maps were 4 MP for leg units and 8 MP for motorized units.

Jungle movement cost for the European scaled MWiF map are double the forest movement cost, that is
- 2 MP for leg units and
- 4 MP for motorized units.

[sajbalk]

The change in scale, I take it, would result in no movement bonus for Japanese leg units in the jungle?

The loss of the movement bonus for MTN units in the Pacific scale mountain hexes I think will be obvious because there are no more Pacific scale hexes.

Having one scale will result in an easier game for newbies, especially over the dispute about 1/2 range for intercepting on the Pac. map.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: sajbalk
The change in scale, I take it, would result in no movement bonus for Japanese leg units in the jungle?

As far as I remember, the Japanese still have the movement bonus, so for them, a Jungle hex is as easy as a forest hex to walk through. Big advantage I'd say.
With the WiF FE Pacific maps, this was the same, as a forest hex cost 3 MP for leg units and a Jungle hex cost 4 MP minus 1 MP that is 3 MP too for a japanese leg unit.

The loss of the movement bonus for MTN units in the Pacific scale mountain hexes I think will be obvious because there are no more Pacific scale hexes.

Yes.

[marcuswatney]

The Burma oil hex is wrongly positioned: the oilfield was between Mandalay and Rangoon

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

The Burma oil hex is wrongly positioned: the oilfield was between Mandalay and Rangoon

What ist's name & location for you ?

The oil resource in Burma is placed in the mountains north of Mandalay on the WiF FE maps, but I did not find any oil resource there. The closer I found was Yenangyaug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yenangyaung has it as "the location of a strategically and tactically important oil refinery. As a result of the speed and success of the Japanese advance up through Burma during the Burma Campaign and the Battle of Yenangyaung, the retreating Allied forces were forced to blow up the oil fields and refinery to prevent them falling into the hands of the Japanese."

This seems the right place for me.

[marcuswatney]

Yenangyaung sounds familiar.
 
Back in the early eighties, with Don Greenwood's encouragement, I designed a Pacific version of Third Reich for Avalon Hill.  Sadly, it was never published, as by the time it was ready Don had turned against complex games.  But I did do a great deal of research, particularly on the location of resources needed by the Japanese (I had a very useful economic atlas published just before the war, detailing resource output and consumption around the world, nation by nation ... so important, given the huge changes post-war).
 
The maps are stored away under my eaves somewhere, and the economic atlas lost in my shelves I suspect, but I do distinctly recall that Burma merited only one (of the, I think, nine oil resource hexes: one in Burma, one in extreme northeast India, three around Palembang [why do you think the Japanese dropped paras there?], one near Surabaya, one in east Borneo [Balikpapan?], one in Brunei and one in north Sakhalin).  The Burma oil was placed between Rangoon and Mandalay, but closer to Mandalay.
 
The official history is by Woodburn Kirby and I think it is called The War Against Japan (in spite of being only about Burma).  It is rather long-winded, being packed with regimental detail, but has some outstanding maps.  I recall how in 1942 the British armoured brigade retreated north from Rangoon, drawing fuel from the refinery as it fell back.  The tanks were abandoned when the refinery was destroyed and the remnants hoofed it back into India in a very arduous march.

[Froonp]

In fact, it seems that we agree, and that your comment on post #32 was driven by a very old version of the map. It's been corrected for a very long time now.

[marcuswatney]

Where do I find the latest maps?  I've been working down 'Links to all map screenshots', third thread on the forum.  Can we please have the latest maps for the whole game appended to the end of each of these very useful files?  That way I won't be wasting my time re-inventing the wheel.  Thanks.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Where do I find the latest maps?  I've been working down 'Links to all map screenshots', third thread on the forum.  Can we please have the latest maps for the whole game appended to the end of each of these very useful files?  That way I won't be wasting my time re-inventing the wheel.  Thanks.

The map were finished in summer / fall 2007 or about that. Steve began doing posting new screenshots a while ago, but did not resume.

[brian brian]

From old readings about Burma I recall the phrase 'the refineries at Arrakkan' or some similar spelling. It got to me thinking that perhaps in the late 30s a lot of fuel was refined quite near where it was extracted and then fuel was shipped from there, rather than shipping oil to a distant refinery as is the case today?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

From old readings about Burma I recall the phrase 'the refineries at Arrakkan' or some similar spelling. It got to me thinking that perhaps in the late 30s a lot of fuel was refined quite near where it was extracted and then fuel was shipped from there, rather than shipping oil to a distant refinery as is the case today?

Arrakkan is not found at Wikipedia. so you have another spelling ?

[brian brian]

sorry Patrice, I'm quite far from my library right now