MWIF Game Interface Design

[Ballista]

These screens are head and shoulders above what we had before (and that's not a knock on Chris- he had more pressing matters to attend to - like getting CWIF off the ground). I'm all for ambience, etc, but not at the cost of clarity and functionality. Besides, we will only spend a minute fraction of time in this part of the game anyway- not to lessen its importance but it does put the rest of the interface in perspective.

Shannon has done a truly admirable job, especially in opening up to comments from us in the "peanut gallery". From what I've seen to date, I have full confidence in his ability to drive this product to a successful conclusion. (And having input into the final product is pretty keen too )

[Anendrue]

I know I am a little late to the discussion. However, the flags do seem to be a bit overpowering. My own eyes are drawn to the flags and away from the data being tranmitted. I catch myself being distracted to the flags  and it becomes hard to focus on the information presented. Perhaps fewer flags in opposing corners upper left and lower right which is the natural reading progression for the non Islamic world. That should draw the eyes to the natural start and stop position of the form.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: abj9562
I know I am a little late to the discussion. However, the flags do seem to be a bit overpowering. My own eyes are drawn to the flags and away from the data being tranmitted. I catch myself being distracted to the flags  and it becomes hard to focus on the information presented. Perhaps fewer flags in opposing corners upper left and lower right which is the natural reading progression for the non Islamic world. That should draw the eyes to the natural start and stop position of the form.

An excellent idea - I'll make those changes.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here is the latest version of the Start New Game form.

[Gendarme]

Greetings and salutations to the Matrix Wif community.

First, my compliments to those working on the game and keeping a tab on us posting on these forums. You're hard work is appreciated and I'm looking forward eagerly to the game's release. Everything -- maps, counters, etc. -- looks fantastic. As Wif is the final word in strategic WWII boardgaming, it looks like Matrix Wif will be the final word in computer strategic WWII wargaming.

Second, and I'm not certain if this post quite fits in with this topic, but I have three questions/wishes concerning Matrix Wif:

1) I know this game must be too far in development to allow for the feature I am about to suggest, but to me, one of the things I like most about wargaming is the variability that dice bring in. I like rolling the dice. The ups and downs, the lucky streaks and yes even the runs of bad luck. I hope there can be an option for the PC gamer to generate his own dice rolls and enter the results into the game as it progresses, whether the rolls be for combat, US Entry, weather, etc. I don't know if this is even an option with other computer wargames or not, but it's just an idea.

2) I've read on an earlier thread that having a feature that will allow a gamer to print the (absolutely beautiful) Matrix Wif maps would take up too much space on the disc, so the idea is impractical. In spite of this, I would like to voice my wish that this will be an option, even if it means having a second disc for the game or whatever it would take.

3) One way I can possibly see Matrix Wif improving on Wif with regards to small historical details is having the unit scale at divisional level, with each land playing piece being an actual division that existed, numbered and with nicknames if any (the Big Red One, Ariete, Das Reich, etc.), rated by combat strength and movement allowance for Matrix Wif. I realize this would add a whole lot of work for the developers with regards to researching Orders of Battle, so I know this is entirely a pipe dream. Not to mention, the number of playing pieces would be quadrupled: imagine the number of divisions the Soviet or Chinese Armies would have. I know what some guys are thinking, if you want to go divisional, go play Europa. Plus, play balance issues would be involved if Wif moved from Corps-level to divisional level.

Anyways, keep up the good work, guys. It is appreciated by all.

Anthony DeChristopher

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Gendarme
Greetings and salutations to the Matrix Wif community.

First, my compliments to those working on the game and keeping a tab on us posting on these forums. You're hard work is appreciated and I'm looking forward eagerly to the game's release. Everything -- maps, counters, etc. -- looks fantastic. As Wif is the final word in strategic WWII boardgaming, it looks like Matrix Wif will be the final word in computer strategic WWII wargaming.

Second, and I'm not certain if this post quite fits in with this topic, but I have three questions/wishes concerning Matrix Wif:

1) I know this game must be too far in development to allow for the feature I am about to suggest, but to me, one of the things I like most about wargaming is the variability that dice bring in. I like rolling the dice. The ups and downs, the lucky streaks and yes even the runs of bad luck. I hope there can be an option for the PC gamer to generate his own dice rolls and enter the results into the game as it progresses, whether the rolls be for combat, US Entry, weather, etc. I don't know if this is even an option with other computer wargames or not, but it's just an idea.

2) I've read on an earlier thread that having a feature that will allow a gamer to print the (absolutely beautiful) Matrix Wif maps would take up too much space on the disc, so the idea is impractical. In spite of this, I would like to voice my wish that this will be an option, even if it means having a second disc for the game or whatever it would take.

3) One way I can possibly see Matrix Wif improving on Wif with regards to small historical details is having the unit scale at divisional level, with each land playing piece being an actual division that existed, numbered and with nicknames if any (the Big Red One, Ariete, Das Reich, etc.), rated by combat strength and movement allowance for Matrix Wif. I realize this would add a whole lot of work for the developers with regards to researching Orders of Battle, so I know this is entirely a pipe dream. Not to mention, the number of playing pieces would be quadrupled: imagine the number of divisions the Soviet or Chinese Armies would have. I know what some guys are thinking, if you want to go divisional, go play Europa. Plus, play balance issues would be involved if Wif moved from Corps-level to divisional level.

Anyways, keep up the good work, guys. It is appreciated by all.

Anthony DeChristopher

Well, I always like to hear from new forum members but I don't think your requests will be part of MWIF product 1.

While adding outside die rolling would be rather easy (for example, the debug version lets the players enter the die rolls for testing unusual results), making it a standard part of the game (as, say, an optional rule) presents some other difficulties. I am worrying here about PEBM and internet play where the resulting die rolls have to transmitted to other players.

Printing out the maps can be achieved using other software to take screen shots and then putting the pieces together. Building it into the program seems unnecessary. I use HyperSnap to take screen shots and that works well for me. It support dozens of different formats.

Going to division level in MWIF is not going to happen. The problem is fundamental: teh ADG designers started with a hex scale, a time scale, and a unit scale (for air, naval, and land units). The rules blend those 4 basic elements into a simulation/game: Map + Units + Time + Rules. Every time ADG made shange to 1 of those aspects of the simulation, they had to make changes to 1 or more of the others. I'm not going to mess with those elements except when absolutely forced to (e.g., for the unified map).

----------

I don't believe I have posted a recent screen shot showing the medium resolution counters. I've added outlines and moved the shadowing to the right/bottom. I will probably make the shadowing a little larger (up from 1 to 2 or 3 pixels). This is zoom level 3, and I think all the numbers are easy to read (except maybe the # of units in a hex).

[Froonp]

Printing out the maps can be achieved using other software to take screen shots and then putting the pieces together. Building it into the program seems unnecessary. I use HyperSnap to take screen shots and that works well for me. It support dozens of different formats.

About this, I did this, at 100% zoom which is not the highest, and it took literally hours and hours, I'd even say days, to take the hundred screenshots and assemble all of them. The final assembled file, saved as a JPG (80%) is 67 MB large, most picture processors program fail at even opening it, so processing it is impossible except with the most advanced professional picture software and very very powerful computers.
So I think that if the game had a simple utility that created a bitmap file of the map, even if the output was hundreds of MB large (I think that a full scale full map in BMP format should be larger than 1 GB, but I don't care, GB are cheap nowadays), I would love it. Needless to say, Rob would love it too.

Going to division level in MWIF is not going to happen. The problem is fundamental: teh ADG designers started with a hex scale, a time scale, and a unit scale (for air, naval, and land units). The rules blend those 4 basic elements into a simulation/game: Map + Units + Time + Rules. Every time ADG made shange to 1 of those aspects of the simulation, they had to make changes to 1 or more of the others. I'm not going to mess with those elements except when absolutely forced to (e.g., for the unified map).

About this, you may know that people at ADG work about divisional WiF, who would be called Master WiF (see for informations at http://www.gdg.de/). For what I know about it, it keeps the map.
Maybe one day Matrix will convert it to MMWiF (Matrix Master WiF) [:D]

[Froonp]

I don't believe I have posted a recent screen shot showing the medium resolution counters. I've added outlines and moved the shadowing to the right/bottom. I will probably make the shadowing a little larger (up from 1 to 2 or 3 pixels). This is zoom level 3, and I think all the numbers are easy to read (except maybe the # of units in a hex).

Great screen shot !
However, the shadowing are not visible, and what is this outline about ? Before, there was a Green outline for units that were available to perform actions during the step that is in play. Is the green outline replaced by this one ?

[wfzimmerman]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Printing out the maps can be achieved using other software to take screen shots and then putting the pieces together. Building it into the program seems unnecessary. I use HyperSnap to take screen shots and that works well for me. It support dozens of different formats.

About this, I did this, at 100% zoom which is not the highest, and it took literally hours and hours, I'd even say days, to take the hundred screenshots and assemble all of them. The final assembled file, saved as a JPG (80%) is 67 MB large, most picture processors program fail at even opening it, so processing it is impossible except with the most advanced professional picture software and very very powerful computers.
So I think that if the game had a simple utility that created a bitmap file of the map, even if the output was hundreds of MB large (I think that a full scale full map in BMP format should be larger than 1 GB, but I don't care, GB are cheap nowadays), I would love it. Needless to say, Rob would love it too.

Going to division level in MWIF is not going to happen. The problem is fundamental: teh ADG designers started with a hex scale, a time scale, and a unit scale (for air, naval, and land units). The rules blend those 4 basic elements into a simulation/game: Map + Units + Time + Rules. Every time ADG made shange to 1 of those aspects of the simulation, they had to make changes to 1 or more of the others. I'm not going to mess with those elements except when absolutely forced to (e.g., for the unified map).

About this, you may know that people at ADG work about divisional WiF, who would be called Master WiF (see for informations at http://www.gdg.de/). For what I know about it, it keeps the map.
Maybe one day Matrix will convert it to MMWiF (Matrix Master WiF) [:D]

Sign me up!

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I don't believe I have posted a recent screen shot showing the medium resolution counters. I've added outlines and moved the shadowing to the right/bottom. I will probably make the shadowing a little larger (up from 1 to 2 or 3 pixels). This is zoom level 3, and I think all the numbers are easy to read (except maybe the # of units in a hex).

Great screen shot !
However, the shadowing are not visible, and what is this outline about ? Before, there was a Green outline for units that were available to perform actions during the step that is in play. Is the green outline replaced by this one ?

Also, why are the hexsides that black, especialy those of the hexes bordering the sea ?
It was quite smoother before, wasn't it ?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I don't believe I have posted a recent screen shot showing the medium resolution counters. I've added outlines and moved the shadowing to the right/bottom. I will probably make the shadowing a little larger (up from 1 to 2 or 3 pixels). This is zoom level 3, and I think all the numbers are easy to read (except maybe the # of units in a hex).

Great screen shot !
However, the shadowing are not visible, and what is this outline about ? Before, there was a Green outline for units that were available to perform actions during the step that is in play. Is the green outline replaced by this one ?

Selectable units still have the green outline. This screen shot is taken from setting up USSR reserves so no on map units are selectable.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I don't believe I have posted a recent screen shot showing the medium resolution counters. I've added outlines and moved the shadowing to the right/bottom. I will probably make the shadowing a little larger (up from 1 to 2 or 3 pixels). This is zoom level 3, and I think all the numbers are easy to read (except maybe the # of units in a hex).

Great screen shot !
However, the shadowing are not visible, and what is this outline about ? Before, there was a Green outline for units that were available to perform actions during the step that is in play. Is the green outline replaced by this one ?

Also, why are the hexsides that black, especialy those of the hexes bordering the sea ?
It was quite smoother before, wasn't it ?

I just changed the thickness for the shadows from 3 to 5, so they are now more visible.

Good catch on the hex outlines - there are several sections of map rendering code I modified recently that might have caused the (unwanted) change. I'll investigate.

[Zorachus99]

Gorgeous !!! [&o]
 

[Neilster]

However, the shadowing (is) not visible,...

What about this part of Patrice's question?

I preferred the units without the white outlines, as below (or have I missed something?).

Cheers, Neilster

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

However, the shadowing (is) not visible,...

What about this part of Patrice's question?

I preferred the units without the white outlines, as below (or have I missed something?).

Cheers, Neilster

The advice I got from the artist was to use an outline at all times (he calls it 'keylining') and to move the shadows to the right/bottom. He also wanted thinner shadows, which I overdid and today I thickened them up some more.

Also at his suggestion, I am using a little black or white square as background for the status indicators (if you look real close you can see one for the Russian HQ). That solves the problem of the status indicators disappearing against some terrain types. I still want better status indicators instead of bland solid circles and I continue to nag him to create some for me. His first attempt wasn't satisfactory.

I exepct to increase the font size for the # of units in a hex for zoom levels 3 and less - perhaps even for level 4.

Another change that has happened since the screen shot you showed is that I am using Patrice's silhouettes for the air and naval units. There are just a couple more touchups to them I want to make. I also repositioned the NATO symbols and numeric factors for the land units lower in the frame.

[Neilster]

Ok. I'm just a bit concerned that after going to the work of adding shadows and rounding the corners to make them look like real counters, we are spoiling the effect with this keylining. Could we see some more new screenshots at different zoom levels?

Cheers, Neilster

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Ok. I'm just a bit concerned that after going to the work of adding shadows and rounding the corners to make them look like real counters, we are spoiling the effect with this keylining. Could we see some more new screenshots at different zoom levels?

Cheers, Neilster

Yes, but later.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I am working my way through all the 100+ forms and coverting the components on each to the new theme. Here's a screen shot of the USA scrap form for Global War

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here is an example of the Units Panel for the Italian player. This shows all the units in taranto.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here is the simple popup message form. You know, that annoying screen you have to click OK on even when things aren't OK.