More Titans for Titans of Steel

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 4:52 am

Lyh, I didn't mention heat anywhere in my statement concerning Lassie's damage potential. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> *Saved by the bell*

But yes, I do know it does heat up quite fast. Not just fast enough to justify all the sacrifices to be made to cram triple-AC20s on a medium, though, if you ask me.

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 5:20 am

A comment on the Launcher design..

You are right that it certainly deals out damage quite fast, but you'll be running short on ammo in no time as well. Also, eventhough Millennia is OK with heat reduction, it leaves you rather weak in armor durability. Besides, you've ruined most of the Millennia's bonus by installing Titanium as well. I'd rather go Dullaroy all around, and 11 LRM6s will heat you up only 5.1C/sec anyway.

My Frogat Mk II design has 5 LRM12s with LOTS of ammo for each and an extra two MLs in its feet for emergency close combat. Summing it up, Launcher beats it by a mere 6-rack in alphastrike, although LRM6's faster reload makes the difference quite a bit larger overall. However, with greatly increased heat per missile in LRM12's, I believe things would even out quite a bit.

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 5:52 am

I thought Lassie's tonnage/damage ratio was impressive.. Until it breeded. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> Its pup is smaller, faster and almost as durable, while losing out on range and some damage. Still, at 2.86 damage/sec, heat buildup nearly covered, this will make you wish you had installed a better shield..

Titan Name: (Lassie Pup) (Light Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Morola L4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 10 [meter]
Bmt : 19 (63 kph) Reduce Heat: -4.2C/sec.
No Jump-Ports Cost : 171200 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :CyberSys [Engine 3] [CT ]
Heatreg.:Mark MH-I [Heat 9]
Flare :FL Frontier [Flare4] [LT ]
LifeSup.:Livotto [Life 1] [Head]
Scanner :CyberSys S [Scan 1] [Head]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [RT ]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] PULSE LASER
[LA ] PULSE LASER
[LT ] MEDIUM LASER

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy 018 [027mm]
[RT ] (19) Vicenium 030 [050mm]
[CT ] (19) Vicenium 032 [054mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium 025 [042mm]
[LT ] (19) Vicenium 030 [050mm]
[RA ] (19) Vicenium 030 [050mm]
[LA ] (19) Vicenium 030 [050mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium 030 [050mm]
[RL ] (17) Vicenium 030 [050mm]
[LL ] (17) Vicenium 030 [050mm]

Armorindex: 6.45 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 166 [APts]
External: 285 [APts] Max:[071mm]
Total Armor: 451 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Light Titan
Weapons : Energy
Warfare : Defensives Scanner
Skills : Medical

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 7:10 am

2 SRM8s subbed gives it -4.9 heat reduction allowing shield to be constant running as there are only 9 LRMs, I don't like the damage loss though.

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 9:27 am

Also, you get more shots off at higher % with 11 LRM6s vs 5 LRM12s. Starting from 0 heat, you get the first 8 racks (48 missiles) off with no hit penalty. The next 3 (18 missiles) get a -5%. Compared to the 5 LRM12s, you get the first 3 racks off at no penalty (36 missiles), the next rack at -5% (12 missiles) and the fifth rack (12 missiles) at -10%. This is solely assuming you alphastrike. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Wed Nov 07, 2001 9:29 am

Originally posted by Jukka Mikkonen:
A comment on the Launcher design..

Also, eventhough Millennia is OK with heat reduction, it leaves you rather weak in armor durability. Besides, you've ruined most of the Millennia's bonus by installing Titanium as well.

The Millenia is to offset the Titanium penalty. Again, it's not a fully tonned titan, so it's meant as more of a support than a dueler, though it performs quite splendidly in duels without running into too much ammo problems.

A Card · Post by **A Card** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 9:36 am

I like energy titans, and noticed a few types missing from the lights.

Titan Name: <%Lighthouse> (Light Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Morola L2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 9 [meter]
Bmt : 21 (57 kph) Reduce Heat: -4.2C/sec.
No Jump-Ports Cost : 148349 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :CyberSys [Engine 3] [CT ]
Heatreg.:Mark MH-I [Heat 9]
Flare :FL Large [Flare2] [RT ]
LifeSup.:Livotto [Life 1] [CBT ]
Scanner :Triton [Scan 4] [Head]
Computer:Krios K5 [Comp. 5] [LT ]
E.C.M :Electra [E.C.M. 1] [LT ]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RT ] PLASMA GUN
[RA ] LARGE LASER
[LA ] MEDIUM LASER

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Vicenium 015 [025mm]
[RT ] (19) Vicenium 019 [032mm]
[CT ] (19) Vicenium 019 [032mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium 015 [025mm]
[LT ] (19) Vicenium 019 [032mm]
[RA ] (17) Vicenium 018 [030mm]
[LA ] (17) Vicenium 018 [030mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium 021 [035mm]
[RL ] (15) Vicenium 019 [032mm]
[LL ] (15) Vicenium 019 [032mm]

Armorindex: 4.86 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 158 [APts]
External: 182 [APts] Max:[065mm]
Total Armor: 340 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Light Titan
Weapons : Energy
Warfare : Defensives Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : Medical

Titan Name: <%Apparition II> (Light Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Morola L3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 10 [meter]
Bmt : 20 (60 kph) Reduce Heat: -2.4C/sec.
Jmt : 14 (85 kph) for 85 secs Cost : 140088 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :Triton T2 [Engine 2] [CT ]
Heatreg. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> elinit H4 [Heat 4]
LifeSup. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> hillippi [Life 2] [Head]
Scanner :CyberSys L [Scan 3] [RT ]
Computer:Triton TC [Comp. 4] [CBT ]
E.C.M :Electra [E.C.M. 1] [LT ]
JumpPort:Morola MJ [Jump 4]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] CHAIN SAW
[LA ] CHAIN SAW
[LA ] SMALL LASER
[RA ] SMALL LASER
[RT ] SMALL LASER

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy 018 [026mm]
[RT ] (17) Vicenium 030 [050mm]
[CT ] (21) Vicenium 031 [052mm]
[CBT ] (11) Vicenium 016 [027mm]
[LT ] (17) Vicenium 030 [050mm]
[RA ] (19) Vicenium 030 [050mm]
[LA ] (19) Vicenium 030 [050mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium 031 [052mm]
[RL ] (17) Vicenium 028 [047mm]
[LL ] (17) Vicenium 028 [047mm]

Armorindex: 6.20 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 162 [APts]
External: 272 [APts] Max:[068mm]
Total Armor: 434 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Light Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : Energy C.C.
Warfare : Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : Medical Recon

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:11 pm

Wow! Apparition II is a very nice design. You have skill at tos design. Keep up the good work.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:19 pm

Originally posted by Eric Petersen:

I'm pretty sure I didn't ask for opinions. Though they are welcome. You must also understand that I do not necessarily design the titan for you specifically but rather in terms of how the AI will use it in the campaigns and the fact that I can airdrop 7 of these on your team. I think there is a pretty big distinction.

There is slated to be a special 'Duel only' database. So Perhaps we should announce in our posts exactly what the titan is designed for. Duel, team, AI, Airdrops. That should help with confusion.

Uh, and I always thought the whole point of submitting desings here was to get oppinions... so what's the objective? Brag about your designs? Show everybody you can design titans? Show everybody you can't? ... ??
Airdropping 7 weak titans will not give you any edge. You have to concentrate your firepower even more. How does that benefit the AI? And if it is getting improved, I'm sure it won't need this.
About databases, how many of them will there be? Will you be able to choose the database? Restrictive.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:21 pm

Originally posted by Eric Petersen:

Engine 4 isn't enough power for a light? That is an interesting statement.

No, *yours* is an interesting statement. Especially for a designer. A VB one. You have a formula for engine quality depending on a titan's tonnage?! That's interesting. So you disregard PU output/requirements completely?! Nice Eric.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:42 pm

Originally posted by Jukka Mikkonen:
Similarly, eventhough 11 PUs seems a bit undersized to run 4CLGs (Frost God), you'll only be needing 7 for the weapons (6.66 average), and you still have your heat reg, scanner and ECM running and one extra PU for walking or recharging JJs. Here again, running will cause extra heat so you wouldn't be able to shoot 100% the time anyway. Having a bunch of PGs as extras will let you alphastrike if you know your enemy will hide in just a couple of seconds for some time.

I haven't really field-tested any of these, but they seem rather workable.

Since when does walking takes *1* PU?
Post your result when you do field test them then.

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 5:29 pm

Iceman,

The manual states that moving only requires 1-3 PU. At least I haven't seen a table (no, it's not in the guide either) where the actual usages have been clarified more, so it was only natural to assume the following :

Walking, turning, standing up, crouching : 1 PU
Running : 2 PU
Dodging : 3 PU

I suppose a running and swiveling titan also uses 3 PU, while a walking & swiveling one only 2.

So, if you're willing, please enlighten me how much this my assumed table goes wrong and where.

And please, turn that attitude knob down once again.. I'm not a moron eventhough I may not know everything. I'm a quick learner.

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 5:44 pm

Also, when designing other than assault titans, you usually have to cut corners somewhere. And as far as I see it, reducing PU output of the engine by just one, even if leaving you with one-under-par PU output for your weapons gives you the most advantage in tonnage.

Even if Lassie had just an engine 3, you would still be able to heat yourself up to red in no time while standing still. Heat reg has already been maximized, so please clarify why would it be absolutely necessary to be able to heat yourself up even faster? Some of the titans in the TOS database have at least 2 or 3 sizes oversized engines.. Nice to counter engine damage, but usually just dead weight.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 5:55 pm

Originally posted by Jukka Mikkonen:
Iceman,

The manual states that moving only requires 1-3 PU. At least I haven't seen a table (no, it's not in the guide either) where the actual usages have been clarified more, so it was only natural to assume the following :

Walking, turning, standing up, crouching : 1 PU
Running : 2 PU
Dodging : 3 PU

I suppose a running and swiveling titan also uses 3 PU, while a walking & swiveling one only 2.

So, if you're willing, please enlighten me how much this my assumed table goes wrong and where.

And please, turn that attitude knob down once again.. I'm not a moron eventhough I may not know everything. I'm a quick learner.

Excuse me, the manual doesn't state *what*?! Read it again, carefully this time. Movement page, where it should be.
And let's stop this attitude knob thing cause I've had it with it. It's becoming an excuse for everything and quite frankly I don't give a rat's ass about it. So take it as I post it and trust my self-proclaimed-non-beligerant attitude or just ignore me. But stop that crap.
I never said you're a moron, never will. In fact I think you're one of the clear headed people around here, and your weapon suggestions were useful to a degree. I said in the past and still stand by it, you sometimes get lost in your (exxagerated) calculations, but that's light years away from calling you moron. So cool it, and don't twist what I say. Ok?

Ducados · Post by **Ducados** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 7:08 pm

Could anybody tell me what the hell is a moron? <img src="redface.gif" border="0">

PrinceCorrin · Post by **PrinceCorrin** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 9:10 pm

A moron is a person lacking in intelligence. A dim witted or somewhat slow thinking individual.

And Iceman, you sound rather beligerant quite often. It's hard to imagine you being otherwise <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

PrinceCorrin · Post by **PrinceCorrin** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 9:24 pm

I also took the liberty of drawing a little table for ya Jukka. Hope this comes out right.
If you want the original ask me and I'll email it to you.

Movement PUs C/sec
Walk 2 0.7
Walk backward 2 0.7
Run 3 1.3
Dodge 3 1.5
Turn Left 1 0.7
Turn Right 1 0.7
Crouch 1 0.7
Stand 2 1.0
Swivel Left 1 0.3
Swivel Right 1 0.3

Jumping All jump modes use 0 PUs, and produce 2.0 C/sec. Jump ports recharge for 1 second every 3 game seconds at a cost of 1 PU

PrinceCorrin · Post by **PrinceCorrin** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 9:25 pm

My spacing didn't work <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 9:33 pm

Originally posted by THE Iceman:

Uh, and I always thought the whole point of submitting desings here was to get oppinions... so what's the objective? Brag about your designs? Show everybody you can design titans? Show everybody you can't? ... ??
Airdropping 7 weak titans will not give you any edge. You have to concentrate your firepower even more. How does that benefit the AI? And if it is getting improved, I'm sure it won't need this.
About databases, how many of them will there be? Will you be able to choose the database? Restrictive.

I'm not trying to kill players; just give them a good challenge so they can move to the next map in the campaign. IT would be a moment where players first say oh crap! then proceed to mop up the enemy and gain good experience. Also called shots make sl's much more deadly than you are suggesting.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Thu Nov 08, 2001 9:51 pm

Originally posted by PrinceCorrin:
And Iceman, you sound rather beligerant quite often. It's hard to imagine you being otherwise <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

I suppose I do if the person reading my posts has already made up his mind about my "character"... if people would stick to *reading* instead of trying to interpret "moods" and "character traits", maybe they'd actually learn something. I've said it a zillion times already, I don't have the time nor the patiente to be diplomatic, my replies are short and to the point - especially in this forum, with this "easier" reply system. That doesn't mean I'm being aggressive. Period. And this is the last time I'm addressing this issue, I've had it with "Mom, Mr. Iceman was rude to me in the forum" crap.