First new weapon for WS being coded

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 5:04 am

Originally posted by Larkin [Vicious Byte]:
[QB]

Shudder .... If you think about the neural bridge causing the jock to get damage if hit by the E.M.P. ... so only mediums and bigger can be affected on a cockpit hit ..... shudder ....
QB]

Maybe Androids should take higher damage as they're more 'in tune' with the neural bridge...

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 5:17 am

Nice idea, will be another balancing effect.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 2:11 pm

Originally posted by Larkin [Vicious Byte]:
Nice idea, will be another balancing effect.

Yep, and Androids are quite strong as they are.

Bernd Hesberg · Post by **Bernd Hesberg** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 6:46 pm

I don't think that Androids need further balancing, or else every other race needs it as well.

Why? It's true, that Androids may improve Reaction and Neural Sense attributes somewhat cheaper, but their self-healing ability is rather a limitation than a benefit! At least I would see it this way, because a fixed healing of one hitpoint per ten seconds means a *really long* time to recover lost health. Not only during this time the weight and slots of any life support are useless. And being wounded leads to further penalties for every other action. Did I miss anything ?

BTW, this is no theory but proven in a test game. But it's no complaint either. I wouldn't consider using more than one Android in my teams anyway.

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 1:30 am

If anything, I would increase the self healing rate of Androids. Even at minimal healing (Life 1) for others, given a high enough medical skill, they'll heal twice as fast as androids (if the check is made every 10 seconds, though it seems to be 15 seconds in some cases). At least give the androids 1 hp/5 sec or make their self healing ability based on their medical skill with certain bonuses.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 1:48 am

Originally posted by Bernd Hesberg:
I don't think that Androids need further balancing, or else every other race needs it as well.

Why? It's true, that Androids may improve Reaction and Neural Sense attributes somewhat cheaper, but their self-healing ability is rather a limitation than a benefit! At least I would see it this way, because a fixed healing of one hitpoint per ten seconds means a *really long* time to recover lost health. Not only during this time the weight and slots of any life support are useless. And being wounded leads to further penalties for every other action. Did I miss anything ?

BTW, this is no theory but proven in a test game. But it's no complaint either. I wouldn't consider using more than one Android in my teams anyway.

Well, I said "quite strong" and not "too strong", didn't I?
And of course self-healing is a limitation, else they'd only have benefits, and then they'd be too strong.
The LS is *not* useless for Androids, it still protects them from shock and general damage, it just doesn't heal them. So if you do not want to be wounded, don't remove the LS.

Bernd Hesberg · Post by **Bernd Hesberg** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 3:54 am

Well, I said "quite strong" and not "too strong", didn't I?
And of course self-healing is a limitation, else they'd only have benefits, and then they'd be too strong.

Iceman, I don't want to argue about words, and "quite strong" also applies to Replicants and Cyborgs.
IMO the balancing is ok right now, although as I pointed out in my post we should take good care of our Androids health. Same goes for Replicants, but for them we have the choice to select a better LS.
After all, again, I don't think we need further balancing. Each race has its strength and weakness, and that's ok.

The LS is *not* useless for Androids, it still protects them from shock and general damage, it just doesn't heal them. So if you do not want to be wounded, don't remove the LS.

Ok, one point for you. Thanks for the reminder.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 4:24 am

I think Androids are quite strong due to their great advantages against the Neutron Blaster.
The E.M. Pulser will affect them only on a cockpit hit which is a minimal chance compared to the Neutron Blasters effect. So I think they are still quite balanced. I like those small differences. But I have also thought about giving them 2hp healing, 1hp is quite weak. We are talking about a cure each 15 secs, so an Android with 80p damage will still take 600 secs to heal

Maybe I will even make the life supports a bit more effective too. Oppinions ?

Bernd Hesberg · Post by **Bernd Hesberg** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 4:52 am

I must admit, I didn't know all details of the advantages.
Just had a short talk with Michael and he told me of the Androids being totally resistant to unconsciousness. With this as the worst effect of NBs, that's a real life saver.
The message "Androids don't get unconscious" never appeared in all my games, but my jock is always well protected in the back ranks. And until lately I can't recall any occasion where I had a random android jock.

So, what's the conclusion? Even old dogs can learn new tricks <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 5:09 am

Life support systems are somewhat effective in healing damage at an efficient rate beginning at [Life 3] and medical skill around 60%. A good rebound from headshots and/or NBs requires at least a [Life 5] and medical skill around 80%. This data is a bit pulled out of the air, but it's what I've found to be effective so far from the games I've played. Androids are pretty much permanently penalized with hits doing 40+ hp damage.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 5:22 am

WS will give androids 2 hp recovery, will add +1hp to each life support and raise the chance for healing to +40% (25% before) if doing no action.

Is it in the manual that you have to have at least one action on wait to receive any healing from the life support ?

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 8:22 am

Whoa whoa whoa, that explains a lot. So you can't move, attack and heal. Don't think that's in the manual but I could be mistaken.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 3:14 pm

Originally posted by Larkin [Vicious Byte]:
WS will give androids 2 hp recovery, will add +1hp to each life support and raise the chance for healing to +40% (25% before) if doing no action.

Is it in the manual that you have to have at least one action on wait to receive any healing from the life support ?

Nope, it's not. Didn't know about it. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
I'll work on it.

BTW, Bernd, I don't recall getting a random Android either...

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 7:53 pm

I don't think I've ever gotten an android in a random duel either, come to think of it. I did make a team of 8 androids once, though, which is why I'm sure about the never falling unconscious part. I saw it plenty of times when I was playing that team. Adding this to the fact that NBs effect them less often, on top of getting bonuses in two very useful attributes, makes androids strong enough (in my opinion) that no further balancing would be needed if they were made more vulnerable to the effects of the EMP pulser.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 1:51 pm

Well, I'm thinking that they don't get unconscious because the NBs effect depends on what you roll, and their high resistance makes rolling high differences (between roll and needed) very unlikely - I don't think it's a special ability. But I may be wrong.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 4:05 pm

Originally posted by THE Iceman:
Well, I'm thinking that they don't get unconscious because the NBs effect depends on what you roll, and their high resistance makes rolling high differences (between roll and needed) very unlikely - I don't think it's a special ability. But I may be wrong.

Its a special resistance. Unconsciousness is a special effect which can happen due to normal damage too. Androids are resistant to it in all cases.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 5:54 pm

Aww. Bernd, you still don't think they're "quite strong"? <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I'm starting to think 1 HP every 10 (or is it 15?) secs is good enough...

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 8:01 pm

Maybe the EMP should knock Androids out (instead of doing normal damage). So they can get unconscious like every other race, but only on a very specific set of conditions. Kind of a brain shutdown - they are machines, so they should be affected like every system in a titan.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Fri Nov 16, 2001 4:53 pm

Originally posted by Larkin [Vicious Byte]:
... life support and raise the chance for healing to +40% (25% before) if doing no action.

This is then modified by the jock's Medical skill, right?

firestorm · Post by **firestorm** » Sat Nov 17, 2001 2:41 am

reading this i thought of something: androids are just robots with brains. so what about this: (those of you who think that androids are balaced as it is, this'll help balace out the damage from EMP)
if an android is killed in a battle (i.e. head's ripped off) but it's titan's BC survives, at the end of the battle there could be a chance (based on the mechanic's skill) for the android to be recovered, because it's body was destroyed but it's mind and memory were saved in the BC of it's titan. it'd cost some cash tho, b/c you have to make a whole new body for the android, and he wouldn't be recovered exactly. there could be some attribute and/or skill reductions.
i dunno, just seems like a good idea to me...