Sneer vs Raver , Banzaiiii!!!!

[Sneer]

my next game will be RHS but I have my obligations to finish this one
and I want to see how tough I am

[BLurking]

Just so you're ready.

What just happened to you in the air, will happen to you on the ground.
Be mentally prepared for it.

The Allies have no Mac vs. Nimitz rivalry, and can focus on a single thrust through the Pacific.

You will not be able to stop that.

If you're lucky, he'll go historical and divide his forces. You can blunt that attack (he'll still win, but you can make it hurt).
But if he focuses on a single axis of attack, no base you hold will be able to withstand it.

Good luck - life sucks for the next 2 years. Get used to it...

[Sneer]

after i finished china i have more troops on the ground than historicaly
so i have no army/navy rivalry

[pauk]

Damn! This was perfectly played and yet Japan didn't have a chance....[:o][X(][:(]

Keep the good work Sneer!

[Raverdave]

Hang on a minute, is this a JFB conspiracy or what? Two turns ago I lost 350 front line navy planes and everyone is saying what a wonderful Japanese victory it was…next turn the Japs loose 550 aircraft and everyone is suddenly saying that the A2A model is stuffed. 

[DuckofTindalos]

You have to ask? Of course it's a JFB conspiracy![:D]

[Sneer]

you lost 350 planes to 270 cap in many uncoordinated attacks where you was beaten part by part
i lost 600 planes to less than 200 cap with almost perfect coordination
there is a diffrence

[Raverdave]

Mark my words...next time our CVs meet there will be a clear an defined victor.

[Sneer]

i will not oppose this statement
but next meeting will be not typical one
i have no chance in next typical
i see carriers as shield over surface groups now
with 500+ zekes i will have ability to move close to you unharmed if you strike you are dead

both carrier forces disengaged
i have done short revision of my naval wing reserves and i should have KB fully operational within 2 weeks
i have even few 80+ fighter groups that can reinforce my carrier wings
war is not over

[Nemo121]

Raver,
 
Do you really not see a difference between fighters slaughtering about 1.33 planes for every fighter in masses of unco-ordinated strikes and fighters slaughtering 3 enemy planes for every fighter even when many of those planes were well-escorted?
 
Just curious since it seems pretty crazy to argue those two are fully equivalent.

[Raverdave]

Well I have had my butt kicked all around the map for the last 2 game years so it is rather nice to see jap planes fall from the sky like cherry blossoms.  So in answer to you Nemo, no I have no problem what so ever with the results.

[Sneer]

That's true Nemo
I was not kind to Raverdave during last 2 game years so I think he prays for even more such outcomes [:'(]
there is no chance to change A2A in this game so we need to get used to the thought that game is one sided from this point. probably it will be repeat from PZB fight as I still have excellent teritory position
western devils will never dare to reach Japan
I don't care and you can belive me that I'm not furious about result - Raverdave is really nice opponent
it is a game and I'm happy men in my private life


and next PBEM of course RHS

[Nemo121]

Well Sneer I think you are taking it overly calmly... It is one thing to be succesful through good play etc, another to be succesful through game design issues.

Raver shooting down 500 of your planes, fine, IF as a result of pure skillful play. NOT fine if due to screwed up air to air model. I find it disappointing that he equivalates the two. Sure it is nice to get a victory after two years but if that victory isn't a result of skillful play but game design then it is worthless.

As to your next PBEM... If you fancy a game let me know. I like EOS as there are "goodies" for both sides. Don't mind whether I play as Japanese or Allies.

[Sneer]

i don't mind as well which side and eos is best of rhs scenarios
I will let you know
I have already thought about playing next PBEM against you Nemo [8D]
it is question about free time as I hate stopping good game but I will think about it

you need to accept or at least take calmly certain things in WITP otherwise you will loose fun and begin frustrated and this is wrong way.
I did it well as planned maybe not 100% but I was rather pleased
it would be better if allies attacked soerabaya than attack lba than carriers but you can't have everything 
enemy TFs were faster than mine forces.
in my opinion it was last reasonable option to go with carriers offensively
after heavy allied carrier losses - with max number of empire carrier force with high exp elite pilots against 60% of total allied cap. pity A2A works in this game this way.
bombs that hit allied carriers are probably last ones that I saw in this game. LBA will never force enemy cap - not in this game and allied TF will have more and more carriers.
I want to test my defence skill but from points situation japan should stop all planes construction at this moment as waste of resources.

[Capt. Harlock]

ORIGINAL: Sneer

you lost 350 planes to 270 cap in many uncoordinated attacks where you was beaten part by part
i lost 600 planes to less than 200 cap with almost perfect coordination
there is a diffrence

There sure is. Something else is that these results happened with the same planes (A6M5 vs. F6F primarily) and even the same squadrons. Why exactly should the Allied fighters be so much better on CAP than on strike escort? It might be time to report this to the Matrix administrators. . .

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

ORIGINAL: Sneer

you lost 350 planes to 270 cap in many uncoordinated attacks where you was beaten part by part
i lost 600 planes to less than 200 cap with almost perfect coordination
there is a diffrence

There sure is. Something else is that these results happened with the same planes (A6M5 vs. F6F primarily) and even the same squadrons. Why exactly should the Allied fighters be so much better on CAP than on strike escort? It might be time to report this to the Matrix administrators. . .

I think it just doesn´t help to report anything related to air to air combat.... [8|]

[Raverdave]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

ORIGINAL: Sneer

you lost 350 planes to 270 cap in many uncoordinated attacks where you was beaten part by part
i lost 600 planes to less than 200 cap with almost perfect coordination
there is a diffrence

There sure is. Something else is that these results happened with the same planes (A6M5 vs. F6F primarily) and even the same squadrons. Why exactly should the Allied fighters be so much better on CAP than on strike escort? It might be time to report this to the Matrix administrators. . .

Welllllll.....on the strike escort the US planes didn't have the advantage of radar to co ordinate their defense of the torp and dive bombers where as in the pure defense of the CVs they had controllers that were able to vector them to be in the best position? I'm not saying that is the reason, I'm just throwing some pennys down the wishing well. Thoughts anyone?
( And lets not forget the Great Marianas turkey shoot where the IJN lost 373 aircraft to 23 US).

[pauk]

greetings Raverdave,

I'm aware that A2A model isn't perfect - but this goes for both sides. Japan have advantage early in the war and Allies in latter war period. I do agree with Sneer and his thoughts 100 % - i would only add that you are one of my favourite players on the boards. I do not know many persons who would continue game after heavy beating you took from the Sneer and that's makes you even more popular in my eyes. Still remember yours and Luskans AAR - a really classic one!

But, you must understand JFBs dissapointment with unability to hurt Allied CVs even after they lost 8 CVs...

As for the radar you may be on target - there is a thread in scenario design about radar - i think Andy Mac done some good tests (although there is other opinion as well) and it is likely that allied radar boost air defence (not only in numbers!).

The other reason for the slaughter (yours planes and Sneers little latter) is that sweep is more efficient than escort (fighters on escort sufffers serious penalty). Is that OK that is another question....

[Raverdave]

Ah pauk, I always enjoy your reading your thoughts.  I guess I was just a little miffed at having lost two CV encounters so far and with this third one seeing my strike force go in piece-meal and get chopped.  On top of that when the tables are turned the crowd bays for blood claiming that the A2A model is broke and hence it's not fair.  But i'm over it now,  just a note here, neither Sneer or myself have any problems with each other but rather there are times when the game mechanics piss us off, but we continue regardless.
 
Oh and a small ray of sunshine:-
 
Sub attack at 27,68
 
Japanese Ships
CV Akagi, Torpedo hits 1
DD Matsukaze
DD Asakaze
DD Shinonome
DD Fubuki
DD Nowaki
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Amatsukaze
DD Niizuki
 
Allied Ships
SS Silversides[:D]

[Sneer]

sub is sunk and akagi keeps 20+ knots with 20+ sys and 10+ flt
so it will remain in frontline bases
if this hit would happen before battle ...