Has Anyone Seen Flyboys Yet?

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

There is also superb movie about WWI pilots called "Aces High":

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0075627/


This movie is nothing short of astounding...

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

If all that is true than aa movie like Fly Boys is not a bad war movie by definition if youre willing to enjoy it out of historical context. One of my favorite movies is Starship Troopers, not because it had anything to do with the book or had any deep underlying meaning, but just cause itss damn fun to watch. But "war movie" by definition should be historically accurate...at least according to my standards....otherwise its just another action flic.

Depends. EatG seems fairly accurate if viewed from the tactical viewpoint of the role of snipers in Stalingrad and the conditions/dangers they faced in that shattered city. It was never meant to be "historically" accurate in terms of specific events such as a contest between sniper experts. I felt it portrayed these things pretty well and the 'drama' of having two expert snipers on opposing sides added to the storytelling of the movie within that historical context. SPR allegedly (i actually missed the first part on the beaches of normandy) does the same thing giving a gritty reallife feel of the tactical battlefield.

Now if flyboys is trying to tell a story within the context of WWI air combat , and one is seeing men jumping off Zepelins to be rescued by friendly biplanes then it deserves to be rasberied just as U-571 got raszd for suggesting (more than suggesting) that the ol Red White and Blue was responsible for breaking Ultra.

As for sniper combat, it might well be very realistic. There are other aspects of the movie, however, that leave something to be desired. These are some aspects that you might take for granted, but I dont think are very subtle at all.

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Ramjet

Guys, there have been great war movies, just not recently. Cross of Iron, A Bridge Too Far, Battle of Britian, Midway, Tora Tora Tora, Zulu, Das Boot, We Were Soldiers; all titles I can think of right now. I highly recommend all these.

Bridge too Far, BoB, Midway and to a greater or lesser extent Tora...present a rather glorified and propagandized version of war, IMHO. You can add the "Big Red One" to that list.

Zulu is a great movie although I've heard that in many respects its is grossely inacurate and unfair to some of the battles most important participants.

Das Boot...a classic, of course.

We Were Soldiers was a good movie right up until the very end. And very faithful to the book, again right up to the very end. But the very last scene just ruined the whole movie for me. What the hell was it with the Ramboesque chopper anyway? Besides that, they missed the bus big time by not portraying the march out as IMO it was the most tragic part of the battle and must be told if you plan to be honest.

To those I would also like to add The Longest Day (the best of the "old" war movies, I think) and Blackhawk Down (there is not another movie that I know of that is that faithfully recreated on film).

[DuckofTindalos]

Yup, Blackhawk Down was fantastic...

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

What his name was, whether he was the cheif instructor at the German sniper school or not, etc, is up for debate...and probably not just a little colored by Soviet propaganda.

Ya think? Please show me some of this evidence...

I'm sure youve seem the evidence...any self respecting account of the battle mentions it, from Krilov to Beevor. Dont be so contrary. [:-] If youre disinclined to belive it, thats one thing, and I might even agree with you in places. But its not the same as saying it didnt happen.

[DuckofTindalos]

Look at page 204 in Beevor. I quote,

"Some Soviet sources claim that the Germans brought in the chief of their sniper school to hunt down Zaitsev, but that Zaitsev outwitted him. Zaitsev, after a hunt of several days, apparently spotted his hide under a sheet of corrugated iron, and shot him dead. The telescopic sight off his prey's rifle, allegedly Zaitsev's most treasured trophy, is still exhibited in the Moscow armed forces museum, but this dramatic story remains essentially unconvincing. It is worth noting that there is absolutely no mention of it in any of the reports to Shcherbakov, even though almost every aspect of 'sniperism' was reported with relish".

I have no doubt that the Germans might have hunted Zaitsev, but there was no Major König.

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Look at page 204 in Beevor. I quote,

"Some Soviet sources claim that the Germans brought in the chief of their sniper school to hunt down Zaitsev, but that Zaitsev outwitted him. Zaitsev, after a hunt of several days, apparently spotted his hide under a sheet of corrugated iron, and shot him dead. The telescopic sight off his prey's rifle, allegedly Zaitsev's most treasured trophy, is still exhibited in the Moscow armed forces museum, but this dramatic story remains essentially unconvincing. It is worth noting that there is absolutely no mention of it in any of the reports to Shcherbakov, even though almost every aspect of 'sniperism' was reported with relish".

I have no doubt that the Germans might have hunted Zaitsev, but there was no Major König.

Like I said...

There is enough evidence that they sent a guy out specifically to find Zaitsev. What his name was, whether he was the cheif instructor at the German sniper school or not, etc, is up for debate...and probably not just a little colored by Soviet propaganda.

[8|]

[DuckofTindalos]

I'd like to see a German source for this... The Soviets might have had a reason or two for telling such a story, but the Germans...?

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'd like to see a German source for this... The Soviets might have had a reason or two for telling such a story, but the Germans...?

The only German account I've ever read was in translation, written by a fellow named either Welz or Weltz and was called either The Betrayed or Betrayed Soldiers and I honestly dont remember him making mention of it.

Edit...the Russians also had a good story about a female sniper whose name escapes me at the moment.

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Yup, Blackhawk Down was fantastic...

Agreed. FUBAR springs to mind.......

[pmelheck1]

I saw thin red line and hated it.  My dad saw it (he fought the Japanese) and was insulted.  I saw it at the base I was stationed at at the time and none of the G.I.'s liked it.  My dad thought it was more anti-war tripe, an attempt to do to WWII what hollywood has been doing to later wars for years.

[Titanwarrior89]

I agree. I thought it would have been better when I went to see it.[:(][X(]

ORIGINAL: mullk

I saw thin red line and hated it.  My dad saw it (he fought the Japanese) and was insulted.  I saw it at the base I was stationed at at the time and none of the G.I.'s liked it.  My dad thought it was more anti-war tripe, an attempt to do to WWII what hollywood has been doing to later wars for years.

[rroberson]

Went to see Flyboy's this weekend with the wife.  Loved it.  Yes there are a few historical...mistakes...but I felt the air to air combat was very well done...gave me a real sense what it was like to fly and fight in those kites with motors.  I would recommend anyone here to spend the money to catch it.

[Titanwarrior89]

Just seen tv Ad for "flags of our fathers". It looks to be the Private ryan of the Pacific.[:D]

[wild_Willie2]

I must agree, Black hawk down was NOT a good movie. I actually saw it on tv again yesterday (of course I read the book when it was first released) and although it gave a general IDEA about the operation that went FUBAR in Mogadishu, it is in fact a HIGHLY dramatized interpritation of the events that went on that day..... 
 
I recently saw "Tae Guk Gi": "The Brotherhood of War" about the Korean war and found it highly ammusing.
 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386064/
 
  

[TeK]

Ron -

That's just Terminus, he's a loser. He always starts crap with people on forums and says mean or ignorant things when he isn't in any just or reasonable position to do so. It's not like you were being ignorant to anyone or even really whining. I don't come here much or even post that often but i've noticed that about him.

He just has no power or anything meaningful or good in real life because he's a coward so he has to compensate by taking it out in forums and by trying to feel big degrading people online where he can have a false sense of euphoric power over people. Ignore him, he's a total hypocrite anyways and more often than not he just becomes what he trys to pass the people off as that he's attacking. If i'm wrong about that then what is it? I don't see it possibly being anything else. He trys to make you look ignorant but you aren't and he just ends up being the ignorant one.

Sorry i've just noticed this since I came here and it's about time someone said something. Is he the same one who use to have the A-20 Havoc pic avatar? If he is then i'm not mistaken.

I won't flame here. I've said what needs to be said.

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: TeK

I won't flame here.

A little late for that. Interesting that you couldn't say that directly to my face...

Oh, and no, I've never had a Havoc for an avatar.

[panda124c]

I saw Flyboys Friday, and well the story was ok the a/c were great. But if I ever dived a Foker Triwing that steep I'd pull the wings off, wait a minute that was what happen to them.....in real life.

On a serious note, as Lucas used WWII combat footage to make the Star War combat scenes, so it looks like Flyboys used Star Wars to make their combat scenes. The A/C density (number of a/c per volume of air) was too high, a WWI fighter were not known for their directional stability so flying and taking off that close together was not done. Also these are WWI a/c the strength of the overall a/c was not that great. So vertical dives was not exactly the tactic of the day, if your wings did not come off in the dive then they broke off during the pull out. The start of each fight scene was speeded up a little.

So much for the gripes, actually the director would have done better if he had watched "Hells Angles" more often.

All in all it was a good movie and I did enjoy it. It's Hollywood; you can over look a few things.

[String]

I for one adore TRL. I think it has been established in previous threads that its a "love it or hate it" movie. Most people around here seem to do that.