Victory Conditions

[toddtreadway]

Not sure if this is addressed elsewhere (couldn't find it).

Have the victory conditions changed to take into account some tension b/w the USSR & Western Allies?

In other words, in the old game there was simply a comparison of combined allied production values to Axis values.

In a 3-player game, is there some incentive for the allies not to cooperate totally? I.e., is there a winner between USSR and the Western Allies?

How about a 2-player game? After the Axis falls does the Axis player get to take over one of the allied powers, or is there some other balancing mechanism?

[Joel Billings]

Victory conditions have changed quite a bit with the addition of strategic points that are scored by taking key areas. This is combined with production levels to determine Axis Auto Victory and also a new Axis High Water Mark which impacts levels of victory if the game goes to the end. If the Axis do not win an Auto Victory and you are using the End Date rules, victory is based on if/when the Axis surrender and the highest level the Axis reached during the game (the Axis High Water Mark).

As for USSR/WA tension, that comes if the USSR and WA players agree to play a Post-WWII continuation game after the Axis surrender. Whenever the Axis surrender, the WA and USSR players are offered a chance to continue the war against each other (similar to the 1946 East vs West scenario in the game, but based on the situation at the time of Axis surrender). Normally the WA and Soviet players shift all forces to go after Japan after Germany surrenders (assuming a German first strategy by the Allies). If you have agreed to play with the extension, the Soviet and WA players must be prepared to fight each other. Of course, this could lead to them not winning the game against the Axis in the first place.

The WA vs SU extension cannot work in a two player game unless they are playing the WA and the SU against the AI Axis.

[toddtreadway]

It might be an interesting option to have a 2-player version of the USSR/WA confrontation in which one player starts as the Axis, the other player as the Allies.  If the point comes in which the USSR/US would normally be allowed to attack each other, the Axis player would have the option to take control of the stronger Allied country and have the computer control the remaining Axis power or to simply have the computer take control of the stronger Allied power.  At that point, the Axis player would have already lost, but the original Allied player might still come in second (same as the 3-player game). 

[Grifman]

So whenever any SINGLE Axis power surrender the WA and USSR can go to war with each other. Or only after the last Axis power surrenders? And do you have a choice - if you choose the war option, can you wait until the last Axis has surrendered? Just trying to clarify. Thanks.

[Joel Billings]

Only when the last Axis power has surrendered are the players given the choice to continue on with a WA vs SU continuation game.

[christian brown]

The trouble with having an Axis player "take over" Russia or the WA is that there is no way to make sure the Allied player does not deliberately weaken one of the 2 powers when victory comes in sight, think about it a sec.  I like the concept and perhaps the addition of a rule/code change involving a random set variant for which side the losing Axis player takes could make this a viable option......

[toddtreadway]

That's why I suggested giving the Axis player the stronger power.  But even that has problems, such as the Axis seeing the end in sight and then throwing everything at one power or another.  It seems like there should be a solution to it though.  I'll give it some more thought.  Would add another dimension to the 2-player game, which is what I play almost exclusively.