Proposal of improvements list

[Iñaki Harrizabalagatar]

Hi
This is a list I have worked out together with Howard Jones, both of us have a lot of experience in the H&M 2 game, in PBEM as well as in designing scenarios, so we decided to make this contribution in the hope a game we love wil improve and get better.

Proposal for improvements

1) 1 turn in a single move. This is a must for PBEM, right now every turn requires an inordinate number of moves. A real turn system Igo/Ugo style should be implemented.
2) Activation leaders system should be replaced by something better, my idea is some kind of partial activation, with limited movement and rallying capacity.
3) Path of routing units needs to be fixed, too many times units rout behind enemy lines
4) Leader radius of influence should be blocked by enemy units, so that you can´t rally units behind enemy lines
5) A more rigid command structure that makes use of historical formations. As the game is now, you can move individual battalions without regard for the division formation,, so that battlelines are not practical in games. My idea would be something along the lines of the Great Ancient Battles game, in which there was a limited number of individual units that could be moved by the leader, and then there was a formation movement, in which a division moved like a single unit. Formation movement would be so encouraged as opposed to individual battalions dancing around.
6) Limit random factor in game calculations, right now it is way too high, making design features irrelevant, I have made a number of scenarios for H&M 2 and I posted about it in the Shrapnel forum.
7) Column formations are used too liberally in the game, it should be a formation for deployment, but once deployed in line units should not be allowed to redeploy in column. Besides, Battalions should march in column of columns, id est, in some kind of divisional formation.
8) Another point on rallying units: reading about C18 battles, one has the distinct impression that, although some units endured a lot more punishment than others before they broke, it was never easy to rally a routed unit (i.e. troops whose fear of the enemy had swamped their fear of their own officers & NCOs, leading to the crucial breakdown in discipline and flight to the rear), and almost impossible to rally the same unit more than once. If this were built into the game, it would discourage the casual use of assault tactics on the assumption that routed units could always be rallied subsequently (I plead guilty to this myself!)
9) It would also be good to have some operational structure around the individual battles (a Campaign Game, in effect), thus discouraging players from bleeding their army to death in any single engagement.
10) Please get rid of the ‘charge fire’ for infantry attacked by cavalry: ordinary defensive fire really is enough! How slowly are those horses moving?! Besides, infantry firing cavalry has a bonus because of the size of the target, however the speed of cavalry charging should offset that in comparison to infantry.

[Tim Coakley]

Inaki,
very good suggestions. I think they all will be addressed in any release (campaign game would be down the road).
1) Will look at 1 file transfer for PBEM
2) Reviewing the activation system...may allow minor adjustments or an aurto rally.
3) OK
4) very good suggestion
5)will look at this
6) will review as well
7) will have attack column to diferentiate
8) will work a combat fatigue system that limits morale for units that have routed previously...will make them more brittle
9) in due time
10) will review

[AndyfromVA1]

Please work on the graphics. They really do need upgrading to at least HPS standards.

[sol_invictus]

A new formation is needed for units deployed in a redoubt/town, such as Disordered, Dispersed. or Loose Formation. I always hate having an Infantry Battalion deployed in Line while defending a Town hex. Great to see this series getting a makeover.

[Magnus]

Are we talking HnM2 here or HnM1? It is me who did the art for HnM2. Better graphics yes it's on the list, my suggestion is larger scaled units along with buildings and trees. Larger hexes to accomodiate this, still keep the animations that is in HnM2.

HPS standards? Hey I will by far supercede that

[Hentzau]

Graphics seem fine to me, sort of artistic which I like.

[Iñaki Harrizabalagatar]

ORIGINAL: Double Shot Design

Inaki,
very good suggestions. I think they all will be addressed in any release (campaign game would be down the road).
1) Will look at 1 file transfer for PBEM
2) Reviewing the activation system...may allow minor adjustments or an aurto rally.
3) OK
4) very good suggestion
5)will look at this
6) will review as well
7) will have attack column to diferentiate
8) will work a combat fatigue system that limits morale for units that have routed previously...will make them more brittle
9) in due time
10) will review

Thanks for the swift answer
In general, the game mechanics is about units routing rather easily, and then rallying rather easily as well, that is another reason why battlelines in games are impossible to maintain A game in which units suffer a slower attrition before routing, and then would be harder to rally would be probably more historical and more satisfactory from a gameplay point of view.
I forgot to add another request, in H&M 1 there was a percentage loss of the army that decided when the battle was over. That didn´t work, as many times didn´t reflect how battle was going on, you could hit the loss mark just when you were breaking the enemy, for instance, but most of the times battle was still undecided when it happened.
In H&M 2 there was a penalty to pass the percentage loss, but the battle still could go on. The penlty was rather mild and my experience with PBEM games is that they could go until the last turn and being decided on vivtory locations, by then very few Battalions stand, most are routing all along the map, and the losses are well over 50%, which is not very historical.
I would like to see here some sort of moral level for each army, taking hits for routing units and at the same time making the more that level is lowered the more brittle units become in a feedback process, so that by the time a player hits the low morale mark he is clearly losing the battle.

Edit: Another "bug" I forgot to mention is that, contrary to logic, skirmishers were very effective defending against cavalry.
Another annoyance in game was that it was difficult many times to see the type of terrain a unit was standing on, so that many times i have tried to charge an enemy unit with a cavalry unit only to find I could not because it was on a forest hex.

[Iñaki Harrizabalagatar]

ORIGINAL: karoliner72

Are we talking HnM2 here or HnM1? It is me who did the art for HnM2. Better graphics yes it's on the list, my suggestion is larger scaled units along with buildings and trees. Larger hexes to accomodiate this, still keep the animations that is in HnM2.

HPS standards? Hey I will by far supercede that

Magnus
I do agree with the large scale, but not with the animations, I think most players turn them off as mcuh as possible once they have seen them the first time, especially those movement animations that slow down moves, after the first time it is not fun wait minutes to move a number of battalions because they are performing those animations.
I think we wargamers love the historical detail, and that could be done in larger graphics, but could do without the eyecandy that other type of games require to appeal their audiences.

[Iñaki Harrizabalagatar]

The editor in H&M 2 is probably the best part of the game, it is very flexible, as almost any aspect of the game could be edited. If more formations are included, like the attack column, and graphics are made easy to edit, almost any battle prior to WW1 could be modelled, so that a larger audience than XVIII century warfare fans could be atracted to the game.
I remember though some minor annoyances with fortification graphics, they were difficult to place. Probably some other graphics and terrains could be added as well, but in all it is very good, and the colors changing with season are a good touch.

[Magnus]

Actually better up is to add an option that you can turn off the animations if you want and activate them if you want.

As for terrain graphics, with larger hexes the terrain would be much more detailed and we could include far more terrain types than we have now. Also larger scaled trees and buildings to make the game look more realistic in scale with the units. I have very good ideas in my head how to achieve this, graphically it is easy. I can make the graphics much much better with larger scales to use. So I hope we can do this.

[AndyfromVA1]

ORIGINAL: karoliner72

Actually better up is to add an option that you can turn off the animations if you want and activate them if you want.

As for terrain graphics, with larger hexes the terrain would be much more detailed and we could include far more terrain types than we have now. Also larger scaled trees and buildings to make the game look more realistic in scale with the units. I have very good ideas in my head how to achieve this, graphically it is easy. I can make the graphics much much better with larger scales to use. So I hope we can do this.

The unit graphics in H&M2 are much improved over H&M1, but the terrain graphics continue to be a problem. If you can substantially improve them with more realistic colors, more variation in the ground, more realistic trees, water, hills, houses, towns, forts, it would add a lot to the look of the game.

[Tim Coakley]

Lots of good suggestions keep on posting.

Some thoughts:

Graphics- looking to make the hex bigger as Magnus noted. Will allow for more detail...also will expand the terrain types. I do want to keep the "miniatures" feel, so you will not see "realistic" terrain.

Formations- will have a "defensive" formation much like a square...but with the intent of holding broken terrain, forts, towns...

Animation- will have a toggle

Withdrawl %- I want to combine the ideas from the HnM games...have a base value for where you lose a Victory level (pyyric victory) and another lower level that is the "army routed" game ending value.

Retreat/rout- (and battle lines) I am planning on 5 levels of leaders...this will allow for more Rally Points....the player will be able to keep units in line better, but it only goes so far. Lines did often break, causing wholesale panic.


Regards,
Tim

[Magnus]

Good suggestions Tim. Hmm I agree with keeping the miniature feel. However a little more realistic terrain wouldn't hurt I think.

[Sumter]

Thus far I like many of the proposed enhancements for HNM2.  I too prefer historical accuracy to eyecandy, but rather enjoy the animation -- except when modifying units.  The scenario editor is the best aspect of the game and, while I like the work done creating individual regiments, I would prefer a broader range of national armies.  Additions of assault column formations and formations for units defending towns or fortifications would greatly enhance the game.  Also, improvements in artillery types would add to the game -- particularly howitzers and mortars.  New versions of the game should also include a greater variety of fieldworks and fortifications, as well as engineer units who can bridge rivers, etc.  The more available types of terrain and terrain features the better.  I cannot agree more with the proposal to limit infantry firing at charging cavalry to one volley.
 
Sumter

[Tim Coakley]

I have howitzers and mortars on my wish list but no promise on those for the first release.

There will be more terrain types...and I am open to suggestions.

Tim

[Iñaki Harrizabalagatar]

I have a bold suggestion. The editor is the best part of the game, solving some gameplay problems already posted, why not converting "Horse & Musket" in a general preWW1 battles game editor, from Quadesh to Gettysburgh? instead of Horse & Musket it would be "Sickle Sword & to Rifle" or "The Tactical Art of War"

[Tim Coakley]

Inaki,
we are looking at how things will come out in the end. Nope sure on the distribution model for the games/engine.

More to come in the next few weeks.

Tim

[lancerunolfsson]

Please work on the graphics. They really do need upgrading to at least HPS standards.

But HPS Graphics Blow ;^) Really by the time you get to Prussias Glory there are for me at least no problems with the graphics. My main things would be wanting a jump map and a smarter AI. As far as the game editor goes just give me some genric units of each nationality building them in H&M 2 figure by figure is tedious.

OH and a Great Northern war release!!!

[Magnus]

Ah yes Great Northern War!!

[Tim Coakley]

Jump map is on my list.

AI will need some though and development.



Tim