UPDATE IV

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Hard Sarge,

IIRC, it was stock OOB, v.1.3 versus Allied AI. Since then I have learned my lesson and the Axis has won each JCL 1943 campaign version within 6 months at the latest. However my current 1944 campaign looks like revisiting the in joke again.

I agree with your comments re Westwall. The point is that (a) contrary to what the game files suggest, there really is no draw result available - if the Axis does not win early (say by April 1944) then it is practically a guaranteed Allied victory, and (b) some of the Axis OOB (eg a couple of Hungarian units and German units scheduled to arrive about 650+ turns) will not actually arrive because of lost territory which is hard coded irrespective of how the air war is progressing.

Alfred

now that is odd, only 2 units that I see that should come in after 500 turns, and that is JV44 and one of the Ground attack Staffels

wonder if you were not seeing some of the units that are in the data base but not meant to be in the game (those normally have a 999 delay date and late in the war, they look like they may come into the game)

[Golden Bear]

It's a PZL P24G. The Polish Air Force didn't bother to buy any for themselves and only a few were built and exported. This one flew for Greece and, IIRC, knocked a LW plane down by ramming it and then flying down to capture the pilot.

[Golden Bear]

Here's another BTR plane for you:

[Golden Bear]

...and a detail of the cockpit:

[Hard Sarge]

Nice

man, you must got a big Selve sitting around someplace, loaded for bear with models !

[Speedysteve]

Very nice Carlos. Very nice.
 
As HS says do you have a spare garage for these?

[Golden Bear]

[:)] No, I just have models stuffed in every available spare space! The wife is surprisingly tolerant. She likes best my biplane models.

[Alfred]

Hard Sarge,

I went back and had a look at my old stock, v.1.03 directory to look at the OOB under the Summary tag. I am not claiming that any of this is a bug, it's just my recollection.

Luftflotte 4 has two late arriving units:

M.101 equipped with Me 110G-4/U8 arriving after 480 days
M.102 equipped with Me 110G-4/U8 arriving after 510 days

With the effluxion of time, I can't recall whether or not M.101 actually arrived but I am fairly certain that M.102 did not arrive because the location of Luftflotte 4 HQ was overrun by the Soviets before the 510 days had elapsed. To avoid this happening, you would need to locate Luftflotte 4 HQ west of Vienna because the Soviets are scripted to overrun all territory up to and including the eastern suburbs of Vienna. As Hungarian forces fought until the end, I think a case can be made for treating Luftflotte 4 differently from Luftflotte Sud Ost.

With regard to Luftflotte Reich, 6 units are scheduled to arrive 600+ days:

Stab/JG5 equipped with FW 190A arriving after 600 days
III/JG5 equipped with Me 109G-6/R6 arriving after 630 days
IV/JG5 equipped with FW 190A arriving after 600 days
II/JG400 equipped with Me 163B arriving after 600 days
III/JG400 equipped with Me 163B arriving after 600 days
Stab/JG400 equipped with Me 163B arriving after 600 days

Again I can't recall whether or not I actually did receive the 5 units scheduled to arrive after 600 days but I don't think the game lasted until turn 630. Maybe a better Axis defence might have prolonged the game a few more turns, but my recollection was that once the Westwall fell, the rate at which German territory was overrun (both east and west), and consequent loss of industry, made it impossible for the game to last 700 turns.

In short, the Axis will lose in April 1945 and is not allowed to survive the 700 turns until mid July 1945 and earn a draw. Of course it could just be that a better Axis player might survive 700 turns.

Alfred

[Hard Sarge]

hmmm

in my data base
I do not have Stab JG5
III/JG5
IV/JG5

II/JG400 comes in 444
III is not there
Stab JG400 comes in 450

(we have a reseach Stab for 400, Stab and I and II gruppen)

I completely reworked the Huns, M.101 and M.102 were renamed and do not come in that late

I can look at the placement of the HQ

[Hard Sarge]

I have move the 4 HQ to 1109/625

can you tell if that area gets over ran ???

[Alfred]

Hard Sarge,
 
I'm not at my computer at present but I will check and get back to you later.  Remember, I am working here from memory and I don't want to create any unnecessary work for the team.  I do appreaciate that you think there is merit in relocating the HQ to a safer location.
 
I assume when you refer to your database you mean the new one that will ship with the game when released.  If so, that means Stab and II/JG 400 will now be much more useful than they were in the original stock version.
 
Alfred

[Alfred]

Hard Sarge,
 
The new HQ location will still be overrun eventually (late Jan/early Feb 1945 IIRC).  If you want Luftflotte 4 to survive the entire 700 turns, I think the x co-ordinate needs to be less than 1,000 (ie located west of Vienna) because by Feb 1945 the eastern half of Vienna is scripted to be overrun by the Soviets.
 
Alfred

[Hard Sarge]

Yuck

I may be able to keep moving it, but it really may need to be looked at with in the code, to move it as the front moves

but for now we can work on a simi fix

[Alfred]

Hard Sarge,
 
Sorry about the extra work. Even your semi fix is an unexpected bonus.
 
I have never been totally satisfied with the scripted front moves.  It probably can't be done with the existing engine, but particularly with the Italian and French fronts, it would be more logical to base the rate of overrun there on the level of Allied success in Avalanche and Overlord, as disclosed in the "List Targets" tag.  For the Axis player he has an additional inconvenience on the eastern front in that unlike Italy and France, he can't click on the "Urban" filter and see where the front line will eventually stabilise.
 
Alfred

[Hard Sarge]

Well no hassle on that

I thought the game did work on a system that the front was based on how well the "score" was going

but not much was really know about the end game phase (lots of stuff was never seen)

we will look at it, but not sure when we can do anything about or how to try and "fix" it

[Hard Sarge]

Been running some tests (got to be sure the Installer works the way it is suppost to)

so a few short shots of the results

(which don't forget, I am a master at plotting, from way back, so results may be different based on who plots, also, I was doing save tests, so is funny, the 2nd try, I got almost double the kills as the first test, but same plot)

first off, sent out a 3 FG sweep to a It AF (Contone ?) which is odd, as the 3 groups, looks like two of them were pulled off to defend themselfs, while the other one made it to the target

which I have cut down some of the shot as it is marked as a placeholder, so don't want to show off all the placeholder stuff

[Hard Sarge]

which if you see, there morale is pretty low, after what should of been a decent mission, look at the planes in repair, they got shot up pretty good, a little rest or bad weather and they be good to go again

this one was just to show that FBs can get kills, will also say, the test yesterday had me losing ten canes, so timeing and placement is still better then pure skill (2 B-17s raids to Paris, with a Mitchell raid to Tilly, with the Canes and Whirlwinds popping up inbtween, worked well, with another 17 raid into Belgum, and Bostons and B-26s raiding AFs in the North)

[Hard Sarge]

and may as well show off the glory boys for the day

(Odd, the 47s of the VIIIth got like 9 for 3 losses)

plan was 3 Med raids into Corica, and sweeps, to draw attention away from the 17s that were going to overfly the island and head deep

(both sets a decent gamble vs the It, not a good idea vs the Ge)

overall, a very good day, the Axis lost 160 planes, I lost 57, I picked up a point of AS, 4 points of ID and about 3000 points worth of Te

I moved over 500 points of Squadrons into new bases (1st turn we get 1000 movement points)

(in case you do not follow that last statement, each plane counts as 1 point, so a Squadron of 27 planes would cost 27 points to move, a FG with 72 planes would cost 72 points (I moved 2 FGs of 39s closer to where I wanted, so that is 154 points)

(in BTR, the GE can also move AA guns, and those come off of the same movement points, as do RR AA guns units, so, pretty much, if you do not like the set up at the beginning, you got a pretty good chance to change it what you want)

(the Allies in BTR are going to have local AS any where close to there bases, it is going to be very HARD to defend the coasts and it is intended to be this way)

[Hard Sarge]

Day 3

the heroes of the day are shared between the 56th FG with 16 kills, and the 79th FG with another 13 Ground kills

(56th scores 16 kills vs 2 losses, while the 79th gets 13 ground kills and shot down 5 planes while losing 5 of there own)

[Denniss]

Do you have an idea how many (if any) Axis pilots are wounded or killed with the ground kills ?