How do I get multiple attacks in a turn?

[SMK-at-work]

I know the theory well enough - conduct bombardments and small attacks, keep formations together to avoid co-operation penalties, attack with units that haven't moved far or at all, etc.

I'm playing FiTE as the Soviets & have not yet obtained a 2nd combat round in a turn. I plan all my attacks so they use as little time as possible - the Tank Corps only ever attack on their own, I dont' thik I've ever planned an attack that took up more than 2 gold segments.

Does movement of non-attacking units count? for example I'll move other units around in deployment, etc. that are not in combat up to their full move before resolving attacks - does that use up the turn too?

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Does movement of non-attacking units count?

No.

Even if your attacks are small and made with units that haven't yet moved, they can still overrun and consume the turn. Also, you can have a failed force proficiency check (the symptom of this is that your units will still have 20% or more of their move left when your turn has ended.

[SMK-at-work]

Ah....so over-runs do use up the turn?  I do ge those occasionaly - if it's a high value target then I pursue the victim until I run out of movement & then try to hit it with another, so that may be part of the problem?

[freeboy]

If you attack with only one unit, and it used all its moves and attacks, then nothing for ANYONE would be left as I understand it, but if you added to this attack 30 small attacks with no movements, and these units had movement or attack ability, you probably would get anouther round.. I find myself looking at the cost to try and attack a small area, and then move and attack .. each scenario is differrent and sometimes it just makes sence to move as much as you can, without risking losing it ala Eastern Front mobile scenarios.. other times, you may want to pound away attack after attack till your turn is over.

[FaneFlugt]

Since it difficult to forsee when a turn is burned or not. I have developed a doctrine called FaneFlugts doctrin[:)]:

Turn 1. Movement, Try to forsee wich enemy units will remain in place for turn 2. Get your units into assaultposition for turn 2. And conduct flanking operation if there are holes in the frontline. If desireable, end the turn with heavy assaults.

Turn 2. Assault. Your units are allready in position. And your frontline is stable because of your cunning use of tactical reserves. Now launch only minimize losses assaults for 2-3 impulses. Move all the remaning units (they have about halv movement left) and launch alot of heavy assaults. That punches holes in the enemy front line.

Turn 3. Movement. repeat turn 1

Turn 4. Assault. repeat turn 2

ETC. ETC.

Take note, that im a recruit and i am stumbeling along, but it seems to do the trick. Problem with my tactic is that i newer get a big hole in the front line, at the beginning of the turn. So that i can pour troops into the gap and pocket the enemy.

But, the many holes that my tactic creates do have the effect, that my MP opponent makes a dash for the next defensive line. So if you are lucky you can run him down and hurt him in the open.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Ah....so over-runs do use up the turn?  I do ge those occasionaly - if it's a high value target then I pursue the victim until I run out of movement & then try to hit it with another, so that may be part of the problem?

No, I mean a conventional attack may overrun i.e. use up multiple rounds.

Retreats-before-combat have no effect on rounds.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: FaneFlugt.DK

Take note, that im a recruit and i am stumbeling along, but it seems to do the trick.

It's not too bad. Part of the trick is knowing when to use this sort of more careful process which is less likely to blow up in your face, and when to go for gold and hope for four rounds or whatever.

[SMK-at-work]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Ah....so over-runs do use up the turn?  ?

No, I mean a conventional attack may overrun i.e. use up multiple rounds.

Retreats-before-combat have no effect on rounds.

OK - that's what I had thought.

I did anothe turn last night - very carefully only planning 1-segment attacks and some bombardments, but to no avail - did 1 lot of attacks and end of turn.

You mentioned a skill test that can be failed. I couldn't find that in my rulebook (I have the rules for ToaW 2) but presumably with a lot of units attacking there is a high chance that some will fail this? What effect does it have? you mentioned being left with 20% movement at the end of a turn.

Failing anything else I'll stop trying to minimise attack times and just clobber the bugger with everything I can!

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

You mentioned a skill test that can be failed. I couldn't find that in my rulebook (I have the rules for ToaW 2) but presumably with a lot of units attacking there is a high chance that some will fail this?

No, this is the force proficiency check. I'm not entirely clear on the details, but after each round ONE check is made based on both force proficiency and the % of the turn remaining. If it fails your turn ends. Units will still have move left- but you won't see this in a TOAW III PBM game.

[SMK-at-work]

Right - gotcha.  IIRC Soviet force proficiency is 60%, so 60% x (say) 80% of turn left would give a 48% chance of an extension, so there's nothign particularly strange about missing out one one or 2.  I'll keep being careful and froth at the mouth some more if it goes several more turns without any

[JAMiAM]

To SMK,

I don't if this is your particular problem, but one of the biggest "gotcha's" is using an air/artillery/helo unit that has expended all of its movement allowance (or the bulk of it) by directly assigning it to an attack. It is very easy to select one by either assigning it with the attack planner, or selecting a stack attack against a hex. The best way to prevent this is to keep a very strict eye on the circlet of stars in the bolted panel, for every unit added when not using the attack planner, and when you are using the attack planner, watch for the blocks to suddenly jump up, when assigning units. Again, for every unit.

[SMK-at-work]

I'm not using air units in attacks at all at the moment - ust letting them be attritioned away on AS and I missions until more capable replacements arrive! 
 
 

[SMK-at-work]

Found something in the manual - a turn ends when

The mean remaining movement allowance of your entire force is too small to allow for exploitation of your attacks.

I'm always entrenching a lot of units, moving rail units long distances, have a lot of fortress units with movement of 1, etc, so I wonder if this is what is preventing me getting another segment?

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Found something in the manual - a turn ends when

The mean remaining movement allowance of your entire force is too small to allow for exploitation of your attacks.

I'm always entrenching a lot of units, moving rail units long distances, have a lot of fortress units with movement of 1, etc, so I wonder if this is what is preventing me getting another segment?

As said earlier in the thread, only the movement of the units actually involved in combat (as a percentage of their original movement) is considered. Units not in combat did count originally- hence the above sentence- but this is no longer the case.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Right - gotcha.  IIRC Soviet force proficiency is 60%, so 60% x (say) 80% of turn left would give a 48% chance of an extension, so there's nothign particularly strange about missing out one one or 2.  I'll keep being careful and froth at the mouth some more if it goes several more turns without any

No. In the above example the odds of an early turn ending would be (1.00-0.60) x (1.00-0.80) = 0.08. (ie 8%, or a 92% chance of an extention).

If you're repeatedly getting only one round, either you're attacking with units that have expended much of their movement, or some attacks are burning up most of the turn. In a massive sim like FitE, one has a lot of opportunities for either.

[Curtis Lemay]

You know, one thing that would help players figure this out would be if each overall attack report listed the round the attack started on and the total number of rounds it lasted. And, also, when the turn ends, there should be a message reporting what caused it - either "all rounds expended" or "check failure".

Something for a future mod maybe.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Found something in the manual - a turn ends when

The mean remaining movement allowance of your entire force is too small to allow for exploitation of your attacks.

I'm always entrenching a lot of units, moving rail units long distances, have a lot of fortress units with movement of 1, etc, so I wonder if this is what is preventing me getting another segment?

If you entrench a unit, it uses its remaining movement allowance. If the unit is an artillery unit, it will then show up in the attack planner. If you were to assign one of these units to directly support the attack, your attack will be starting at the last tactical round, and you will then end up with your turn completely burnt.

If you are assigning your support units in the attack planner, then make sure you keep a close eye on the gold/silver boxes, so that you don't inadvertently cut yourself off at the knees.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

You know, one thing that would help players figure this out would be if each overall attack report listed the round the attack started on and the total number of rounds it lasted. And, also, when the turn ends, there should be a message reporting what caused it - either "all rounds expended" or "check failure".

Something for a future mod maybe.

Good idea, Bob. Oh, and while I'm at it, a shameless plug for reading Bob's article on mastering the art of multiple rounds, over at Xtreme-Gamer. It's one of the best articles for TOAW that you can read.

[SMK-at-work]

I think I'll do a test tomorrow night - I'll take one of the old turns and do nothing except run a single 1-pulse attack & see what happens - then repeat teh exercise with various combinations of movement, etc.

[SMK-at-work]

Tried this and got 60% of my turn left from 1 attack with an adjacent unit, then each subsequent attack reduced it by 10% as it should - no other units moved.

Did it all again from scratch moving a few units, got 90% left after the 1st attack, added in a few more, just reduced 10% each time, so I guess I'm just being careless!!

Thanks for your patience everyone.[&o][&o]