General questions for CC: CoI

[Cheeks]

Hi David, Shawn and all CC gronards!

I’ve never played a game in the CC series and I have a few questions. The information available on the web is considerable but not defining. If some kind soul could answer the following questions I’d be grateful.

1. How are elevations visually defined on a typical map?

2. I’m sure unit speeds are affected by terrain, but are unit accelerations affected?

3. Can a squad be split on-the-fly?

4. How close can the penetration / kill calculations be compared to the Steel Panthers: WAW calculations?

5. Can a unit be re-supplied (e.g. ammo) within a scenario?

6. Is the LOS traced to a “hypothetical” squad center or to each individual member of a squad?

7. Are leaders (be it squad, platoon, company or battalion) represented individually or inclusive to a multi-member unit?

8. Do AFVs block or hinder LOS?

9. Are infantry units able to mount vehicles?


Thank you for not pursing the 3D course that apparently all developers & publishers insist that I need.

[Marc von Martial]

Some quick answers:

3. No
5. Sort of, they can scavenge ammo and small arms from fallen soldiers/inihilated squads
6. LOS is pointed to center of the squad (targetting tool) but you can not hit soldiers that are in full cover of if LOS is blocked to them.
7. There are seperate command squads (eg. company or platoon leaders) squad leaders are part of their squad
8. Yes and wrecks also
9. Not in CC3

[amwild]

ORIGINAL: Cheeks

1. How are elevations visually defined on a typical map?

2. I’m sure unit speeds are affected by terrain, but are unit accelerations affected?

3. Can a squad be split on-the-fly?

4. How close can the penetration / kill calculations be compared to the Steel Panthers: WAW calculations?

5. Can a unit be re-supplied (e.g. ammo) within a scenario?

6. Is the LOS traced to a “hypothetical” squad center or to each individual member of a squad?

7. Are leaders (be it squad, platoon, company or battalion) represented individually or inclusive to a multi-member unit?

8. Do AFVs block or hinder LOS?

9. Are infantry units able to mount vehicles?


Thank you for not pursing the 3D course that apparently all developers & publishers insist that I need.

To answer the as-yet unanswered questions, with reference to the older CC games. CC: CoI may be a little different:

1. Elevation is perhaps not handled as well as it could be. The game is top-down, so it is difficult to show elevation. Lines of sight can be traced out from your own units to enemy units or potentially occupied terrain, and if there is no LOS, the LOS line darkens at the point LOS is lost to show an area that is out of sight.

2. I never observed terrain affecting infantry speed, though it did affect vehicle speed. Acceleration appeared almost instantaneous once the units began moving. I could be wrong, though.

4. I don't know how Steel Panthers: WAW calculates penetration. As far as I can tell, the CC series uses relative attack/defense strengths based on weapon, range, terrain, movement speed, target type and target aspect to determine the probability of a hit and the effect of a successful hit. Someone else could probably give a more detailed answer.

9. Crew can bail out of a damaged vehicle - or can bail out of an undamaged vehicle if sufficiently lacking in morale, but in previous CC games, they would not ever take over another vehicle, and as infantry, vehicle crews are typically fairly lacking in morale.

[Nembo]

To Answer the other questions,

1.Mostly by shading, if you look at a screen shot you'll see what I mean.
2.Yes as far as I know the terrian directly effects both soldiers and vehicles movment and acceleration, thou acceleration doesn't count for soldiers.
4.Never played Steel Panthers much, so I cant realy tell you.
5.Soldiers can search dead bodies for ammo or weapons, but other wise only inbetween battles.
6.As Marc said, plus you can fire on areas you suspect of houseing a squad.

Of course the best way would be to download the demo for CCIII.
http://www.closecombat.org/CSO/index.php?name=CmodsDownload&file=index&req=viewsdownload&sid=189


EDIT: I post my response to see some body beat me to it.

[Cheeks]

Thanks to all for answering the questions!

[moose1999]

Wait a minute - I've been playing the CC series since the first game - and I did not know that you were able to scavenge ammo and weapons from dead soldiers on the battlefield, during a battle...!

How does one go about doing this exactly?

[raygun]

ORIGINAL: briny_norman

Wait a minute - I've been playing the CC series since the first game - and I did not know that you were able to scavenge ammo and weapons from dead soldiers on the battlefield, during a battle...!

How does one go about doing this exactly?

Hi, this is already happening in CC3. Just leave your troopers around fallen men, and you may see them scavenging, espacially when they are low on ammo.

cheers

[moose1999]

Great! - thanks for the info. Gonna try this out immediately.
Can't believe I haven't found out about this untill now...!

[general billy]

They can also panic aswell seeing all the dead.

[Andrew Williams]

Scavenging will only work if the men have run out of ammo.

If they still have ammo they won't drop their rifle and pick up a MG42.

If they are out of ammo there is every likely hood they will pick it up.

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: raygun

ORIGINAL: briny_norman

Wait a minute - I've been playing the CC series since the first game - and I did not know that you were able to scavenge ammo and weapons from dead soldiers on the battlefield, during a battle...!

How does one go about doing this exactly?

Hi, this is already happening in CC3. Just leave your troopers around fallen men, and you may see them scavenging, espacially when they are low on ammo.

cheers

Was introduced in CC2. And seriously saved my butt in several of those "impossible" to hold LZs.

[Nembo]

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck
Was introduced in CC2. And seriously saved my butt in several of those "impossible" to hold LZs.

Actually it wasn't added till CC3.

[Beeblebrox]

Thank you for not pursing the 3D course that apparently all developers & publishers insist that I need.

We have never thought it necessary (and potentially damaging), and Matrix are wise enough to follow sage counsel There are no plans to take CC into 3D, though I suspect there will be pressure over time.

[sapper_astro]

Theres also a logical reason as to why the CC's lose something in a transition to 3D. If anyone has played any of the attempts, you will know what I mean. The overhead map of CC tends to allow things to be done much easier, without having to work a camera everywhere I go.

Looking forward to hearing the panic sounds of the Russians in an updated game...damn they cracked me up[:D]

[Beeblebrox]

If anyone has played any of the attempts, you will know what I mean.

I do know what you mean.  I had hopes for EYSA, and to be fair, I did get quite a lot of enjoyment from it, but it was revealing (to me) that I ended up trying to play EYSA like CC (Top down Camera), but it didn't do what CC does, so it now sits on the shelf, and I still play CC almost 10 years on...
 
I believe there are compelling reasons why 3D does not work in this game/sim.  As a Squad level (re-inforced Platoon) scale of combat, you are not focused on individual performance but the Team's tactical performance.  As the 'Commander' you get the right kind of relationship with the Battle which seems to be difficult to obtain in 3D.
 
However, I would like to see 3D somehow, but at this moment, I do not know whether it could be made to work.  Perhaps as a complimentary 'view' rather than the main game interface?  I don't know.  It may never work, but I would like to see some effort put into it.  Just a personal thing.
 
 

[FeurerKrieg]

Two instances I would like to see 3-d (certainly not required, but would be nice chrome)

1) Occasionally during deployments would be nice to jump to a given soldiers view to get a better feel for line of site obstructions and what not. As is, though, I've gotten good at the old "green line/red line" method of checking for hills and such.

2) A post battle replay in 3-d would be great in a ghost mode where I could just zip around the battle. Replaying some of the really intense moments would be great entertainment, but again, not needed for good gameplay.

[Beeblebrox]

Occasionally during deployments would be nice to jump to a given soldiers view to get a better feel for line of site obstructions and what not. As is, though, I've gotten good at the old "green line/red line" method of checking for hills and such.

I agree, and that extends to in game action as well...
 
I am sure that this *can* be made to work, but the logistics/costs are if not prohibitive, then extremely challanging... I mean, without a guarantee of success, it is going to be difficult to motivate the money men...