Release 3 - Public Beta

[Marauders]

Well, it really comes down to how clean this next build looks.  I know that my response was a little vague, but it really has to be.

As I have stated, only David can give a date on this, and he has more information than I do.  I suspect it will be on the inside rather than the outside, but we really need to take a look at the build before being more definitive.

[Brockleigh]

No worries, Marauders. No one wants to read post after post of "But you said...!!!"

Dave (et al), take your time. The game in it's current state is more than enough to keep me happy until the release of R3.

Then again, I'm only speaking for myself, but that seems to be what most folks are saying as well. [:)]

[local8h]

I dont know about that Brock, theres atleast six on this thread that wants R3 to be release soon..I two has two copies of this game, im on my third season and still going around the bugs. Hey and i like the game a lot and play it a lot, and its just not me that plays it in my household..i just want most of the bugs to be cleared..
I do know how long it took this game to be develope and suppose to be realease 2001 or 2002.i appriciate what Mr.Winter is doing, But come on now cant the OTHER FINDINGS be release on the next patch like an R3.5, I also want to benefit on all the new features that R3 has. Only a handful gets a chance to try it.

[grrncore]

i admit please release R3 asap. i like game too. i started felt that what i bought a beta game.

[Marauders]

I certainly understand that.  I believe that adding PDS 2.0 to the beta builds may have been premature.  That left a build up for a long time that had bugs in it that had been long squashed in beta.  The builds could not be released even in public form because the PDS was back to alpha stage.

Consider two things here though.  The first is that David wanted to do PDS 2.0 for a while, but he added other things that had been requested by the Maxuimum-Football community.  Many community members who had purchased the game had complaints about the PDS being a utility that did not match up well with the 3D game at times, and David believed it was a better to get PDS 2.0 into the game as soon as he could. 

Knowing that revamping the defense and doing fure updates in graphics would require the PDS to be integrated, it made sense to get it into the game as the major update to Release 3.  I would have waited a few builds to clean up the public release, but that may have required David to take the same hill twice, and he didn't have the time to do that.

Almost all software publishers will release their products a bit early, so this isn't new or exclusive to Matrix Games.  I don't really like that approach, but that is common.  In this case, there were active requests in this forum to release the program early and let the community help up with any remaining bugs.  Whether it was correct or not to release when they did, that is debatable, but that is the history of it.

The other thing to consider is that there is a group of naysayers that like to make negative posts when a bug shows up.  This has delayed the posting of a public beta build, because bugs do show up from time to time after changes in code are made, and I don't believe either David or Matrix Games want to have to read a bunch of attack posts.  In my opinion, it is a good idea to get an update out just to get all of those old bugs out of the way, and I know David agrees with that.

I must add here that there have been many delays in Release 3 because the beta team has asked for many features and tweaks.  I asked for two tight ends and three running backs, Old Coach asked for six defensive linemen, nmleague asked for changes in punt returns, we all asked for various updates to the defense, and so on.  There are many examples of the beta team pushing for features that we believed would make the game better and more realistic.  The defense has actually been updated twice in Release 3, and it will likely be updated again afterward.

I personally have kept an eye on the public board and have relayed wishes and feedback from the community as feature posts in the beta board, and I know that David keeps a tab on the opinions of the community members.  That is why positive and constructive feedback is important.

Please read my original post above carefully.  I have given the extremes of the window for getting the Release 3 beta up on the server.  It is important to get it out.  It is important to get more feedback from the community, and it is important for the purchasers of Maximum-Football to get an updated copy in their hands.

[marcntx]

I'm just glad that the game is still being worked on to make it better.  How many games have we all bought that were buggy and the patch to make the game worthwhile never came?  I can wait.

[Frenzy]

ORIGINAL: Marauders

Please read my original post above carefully. I have given the extremes of the window for getting the Release 3 beta up on the server. It is important to get it out. It is important to get more feedback from the community, and it is important for the purchasers of Maximum-Football to get an updated copy in their hands.

Agreed. I've actually shelved the game until the next update because of the stats giving me odd results. Hopefully the next build will be better in that area. I'm willing to fire the game back up and provide feedback once the public beta is released but we have to have it in hand to do that!

[VTBM]

ORIGINAL: Frenzy
Agreed. I've actually shelved the game until the next update because of the stats giving me odd results. Hopefully the next build will be better in that area. I'm willing to fire the game back up and provide feedback once the public beta is released but we have to have it in hand to do that!

I agree. Ive been reading the forums again and I havnt yet bought the game becuase of all these stat bugs and such. I dont understand why the newest patch hasnt been released. I thnk the bugs should have been fixed first before the PDS. Basicly, release a patch with the fix then the pds after. Im not a hater, i think this game has big potential. Just fix the bugs first before you add things.

[David Winter]

I agree. Ive been reading the forums again and I havnt yet bought the game becuase of all these stat bugs and such. I dont understand why the newest patch hasnt been released. I thnk the bugs should have been fixed first before the PDS. Basicly, release a patch with the fix then the pds after. Im not a hater, i think this game has big potential. Just fix the bugs first before you add things.

The problem is that a lot of the on field game play bugs could only be addressed by bringing the play design into 3D. Many of the game play problems were the result of the disconnect between building plays on a small 2D section of field, and then trying to use them in 3D. By bringing the PDS into the 3D world allowed me to dig deep into the roots of some of the problems. Heck, if nothing else, being able to instantaneously move from design to practice field was a huge boost to being able to debug things.

The number of improvements to the on field game play could never have been accomplished if the PDS was still a separate 2D based application.

[Marauders]

The problem is that a lot of the on field game play bugs could only be addressed by bringing the play design into 3D. Many of the game play problems were the result of the disconnect between building plays on a small 2D section of field, and then trying to use them in 3D.

 
I agree.
 
The PDS improvement was asked for by purchasers from release.  The disconnect between the PDS utility and the game made play creation and some AI suspect.  As I stated above, the move to PDS 2.0 was done in part to keep from having to take the same hill twice - that is, recode the same stuff more than once.
 
It would have been nice to have a cleaner public release out there, but it would have meant a further delay in Release 3.  There are always opportunity costs in every action.
 
- Marauders