The Magnificent Seven vs. Nemo/Cid - Allied AAR

[Elladan]

Well, no heavies in China. But maybe I can place my reserve forces in nearby bases. It should inflate the supply need. It will drag more supplies there though. Have to thing about it.

[ctangus]

That's not how you want to do it. You want your large supply dumps as far as possible from Chungking. (Plus as close as possible to the front.)

VSWG picked out a key paragraph, but what's meant by an abundance of supply?

I am certain that for a base to supply a ground unit "abundant supply" means greater than 1X the monthly needs. I've frequently seen bases in the "pink" supply the ground units stationed there. I've never seen bases in the "red" (less than 1X) supply their ground units. I haven't formally tested it but I watch my supply levels closely.

I'm not sure what "abundant supply" means for a base to move supply to another base - I suspect it's the same but it might be 2X.

So let's say a base has a 10K monthly supply requirement. It tries to stockpile 20K. It stockpiles 15K and then dumps off 3K to nearby units (and bases too, maybe). Potentially it could have 10K plus supply it could forward. (Though in practice I've never seen such large drops).

If the same base has a 1K monthly supply requirement, it would only have about 1K supply ready to forward.

[ctangus]

Chuck's theory on how not to supply Chungking:

1. Send the Chinese HQ as close to the fighting front as possible. Mass your units as close to the front as well, without ridiculously exposing flanks.

2. At the base nearest Chungking (Is it Kweiyang in RHS? I don't have the map open right now) send only the smallest garrison possible to defend against paratroops. Let's say for example a division.

3. In the first hex on the road Kweiyang-Chungking put two divisions. I suspect they will draw on the limited supply in Kweiyang before Chungking does. They might even draw supply from Chungking on occassion.

4. Hope for good die rolls. [:'(]

I'm fairly certain that would work to stop most, though not all, supply getting through. It should be tested, of course. I'll do that if I have the time this weekend, though I don't think I will.

Oh - and of course - replacements off for the supply sinks. [;)] Might be wise to have replacements off for all units in China until you get a good idea of how the supply situation works out.

[ctangus]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

VSWG (if you are Soviet player): nobody said that you cannot play some diplomacy with Japan [:D] You can always demand Kurilles back or else... :] I would also start doing some neutrality patrols. Also organizing convoys for supplies to US. If Japan dare to interact... well... their fault. (keep your 40 submarines in position). With Soviets active Japan is more less screwed.

That's brilliant!

Demand safe passage for the lend-lease route to Vladivostok for any Soviet-flagged vessels! You could stockpile a s---load of supply and maybe even smuggle some in to the Chinese Communists. After all, Mao & Stalin were more chummy during WWII than later.

[BigJ62]

This is so cool, who's in charge of gathering and maintaining all intelligence info?

[AU Tiger_MatrixForum]

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

This is so cool, who's in charge of gathering and maintaining all intelligence info?

Good question. Who wants to role play Cmdr. Layton?

Of course I'll have clear you for FAIRY DUST first....

[Sneer]

ORIGINAL: VSWG

Don't worry, with Nemo playing the IJA I will work under the assumption that I will be dragged into this war sooner rather than later. [;)]

i was thinking a lot and with current deployment of enemy land units it is more than probable that after DEI/PI will be conquered Soviets will be next
if they want to create autarkia industry they will go for soviets
that's why i vote for early deployment of alaska command

here is sth i thought about during my PBEM
apart from 3 div in burma i had southern army divided into 2 main groups + lots of small units
1 group took malaya and was later scheduled for Java , second took PI and was immiedietaly moved against east india - but there was also idea about moving second group against russia
i had even kwantung army ready for offensive

1.with so many zeros on board they can spare some to use against soviets
2.with advantage in carriers they will control seas with easy and will halt any offensive in pacific in 42-43
3.with advantage in experiance it is probable that all ships from western part of map will be sunk - many Japanese ships is 80/80 with many allied capitals 40/30 add long lances and guess result. even veteran ships from Med theater are no match for average jap crew
42 will be used for many shakedown trips with attacking even silliest places - just to get exp into 50-60 area in both day and night actions - with even odds we are dead.


reassuming
they can go for soviets and we can do little to help them
VSWG will be in action before may 42 - any bets ???

[Elladan]

Given that IJA will probably not launch an all-out offensive against India with aim of conquering it, as I understand it from Nemo-Cid discussions, There is not many places IJA may go in 42. The probable targets are China, Australia and USSR. As Australia is only a delaying action in strategic sense and remembering Cid's desire to set a working Japanese autarky, I believe the chances for big action against Russia after dealing with Malaya, DEI and PI are high. So definitely we should prepare a plan for this.

One of the options could be an increased allied activity in Burma area. I would like Sneer to prepare a plan for such operation. Generalissimo Chang Elladan offers significant forces for such operation if Brits provide supply for them. Just tell me how many divisions you need.

[Sneer]

depends how many troops and in what shape troops from burma/malaya will be evacuated
i'm considering situation when japan makes brave attack on mersing and think that only total evacuation is good idea - with some troops staying at singapore - anything else that will be too far to join fortress defence will be evacuated by RN to india

i plan to use port blair and sabang as jumping points in dec 42
if i save troops from malaya and manage to stop enemy in burma keeping burma road i can increase preassure quite fast
but I will need air support - it means that quite a huge portion of PI air power will be needed in asia

As for ABDA creation - be very carefull
I will send 1-2 CLs  to join forces as soon as ABDA HQ  is created / 15 days
heavy ships will be moved out of singapore in early days

[Ron Saueracker]

Three pages of chit chat an still no turn....hmmm. 9 players eh?[>:][;)]

[Elladan]

It will be good if we start this year. With 9 players it takes ages to go to a conclusion. [;)]

[JeffroK]

Planning for Dec 1942, blimey, I reckon it will be about 2010 before you reach that far.
 
Getting to the end of Dec 41 will be a challenge.

[Sneer]

yes

[VSWG]

Some data on the Allied economy (statistics! yaaaaay!! [>:]):

Total Daily Supply = (supply created by off map production) + (supply created by resource center) + (supply created by heavy industry)
Total Daily Fuel = (fuel created by off map production) + (fuel created by oil center) + (fuel created by heavy industry)
Oil Balance = (oil created by off map production) + (oil created by oil center) - (oil consumed by heavy industry)
Resource Balance = (resources created by off map production) + (resources created by resource center) - (resources consumed by heavy industry) - (resources consumed by manpower)

India:



Australia:



New Zealand:



China:



Soviet Union:



West Coast:



Disclaimer 1: This is the data for Dec. 7th, 1941. Industry may become damaged, or repaired (West Coast), and then these values will change.
Disclaimer 2: These tables DO NOT include the effects of supply sinks, or supplies consumed by LCUs in general. It's just what the industry produces, and consumes.

[VSWG]

I want everyone to study these tables over the weekend. There will be a short test on Monday to see if everyone has understood the basics of WitP RHS economy.

[:'(] [:'(] [:'(]

[VSWG]

I knew my statistics would kill this thread! [:D]

Hello-o?! Someone here?

Okay, BlitzK is our team leader regarding turn processing, but what about in-game authority? I suggested introducing something like the Combined Chiefs of Staff for all Allies with unequal votes, but that idea was never mentioned again, so it's probably dead. [:'(]

HOUSE RULES ARE NOW DISCUSSED IN THE RHS TAG TEAM THREAD!  So if anyone present, for any reason wants to add a house rule, let him speak now or forever hold his peace. [:)]

[Przemcio231]

I like your Idea[:D]

[VSWG]

In that case, I'll post it again. [:)]

What do you think about a council of Allied commanders deciding about reinforcements and especially usage of political points? Something like the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) in real life? Each player would have a different number of votes in this council, maybe like this:

USA: 6 votes (3 USN and 3 Army)
Britain: 4
ANZAC: 2
ABDA: 2
China: 1
Soviet Union: 0. Stalin won't cooperate! [:'(]

ORIGINAL: AU Tiger

As for ABDA strategy:

I am a complete greenhorn in PBEM. My tentative thoughts are to fall back to Soer. and stand there until overrun, but am most certainly open to suggestions. I hope to use some PP's to withdraw various BF's in the area for use elsewhere.

IMO retreating to Soerabaja it will fall faster. Japan needs level 4 air fields in the DEI before it can invade Java, so I would try to delay Japan as much as possible. I lost Kendari and Kuching early in my PBEM, and it was incredible painful for me, because these air fields can support Nells/Betties with torpedoes, thereby making the entire DEI a no-go zone for Allied ships immediately. Kuching will probably be attacked early and hard, making it a lost cast, but Kuching might be another matter. Just my opinion, I have no say in this. Oh, and in most PBEMs Palembang falls later than Java, because otherwise the Allied player could use the air bases on Java to bomb Palembang's precious oil centers.

If you want to do some reading, have a look at section III.C here:
tm.asp?m=1274014

I really liked Nemo's idea of a box defense in the DEI:
tm.asp?m=1198156

[VSWG]

Sneer,
I would be interested in your files - I'm a data junkie (as some of you might have noticed)! [:)]

Sent to: stirnberg DOT martin AT gmx DOT de

Of course, my own files are available, too. All values in blue columms are automatically generated, of course. I can offer spreadsheets for LCUs, Air Groups and Plane Types, too.

Here's a trick to transfer Canadian air groups to India, scroll down to Black Mamba's post:
tm.asp?m=1044646

[VSWG]

ORIGINAL:  Bliztk

USN Pacific Command plans in case of war with Japan

Eastern Pacific Command. (Pacific Fleet)

1. Execute War Plan Orange. [;)]

2. Move 2nd USMC Division to Oahu (to help it`s rebuild). Molokai, Lahaina and Hilo should have as garrison a USA Regiment or Division, with support units.

3. Midway Island is important to hold but not essential

4. As reinforcements arrive the deployment of USA units in the chain Johnston I, Canton I, Palmyra, Pago Pago, and Suva.

5. Early Reinforcements of New Caledonia / Solomon Islands are defered to ANZAC Command. We suggest using NZA Units as foward defense.

6. Conduct a heavy ASW campaign in the area between the CONUSA and the Hawaian Islands. Once those areas are secured for merchant traffic, the ASW forces will be deployed father south or assigned to the Pacific Fleet offensive operations

Western Pacific (USAFFE)

1. Situation in the Philipphine island deemed as utenable. All surface forces will redeploy towards ABDA command.

PACFLEET Exercise XVI suggest that using four ship Task forces with two capital ships and two screens are the most suitable to interdict the Phase I of the Japanese advance.
TFs of four ships are hard to detect by overstreched enemy naval search planes, and succesful raids will force the enemy to cover all their invasion forces, thus:
A) Dilluting enemies strengh B) Forcing a slower tempo to have all forces escorted C) Negating the enemy airforce effects

2. All Merchant Ships will be ordered to move towards Soerabaja and placed under ABDA/ANZAC/British instructions.

3. Asiatic Fleet Sub Arm will try to interdict the traffic with their S-Class subs. Fleet Subs will be used for minelaying operations, commando inflitrations and cadre evacuations. At request of the Adm. Blitzk a war game demonstrated that Asiatic Fleet subs could move a complete BDE (except heavy equipment) with two loads under enemy heavy air pressure

4. Asiatic Fleet surface units not used as point 1), will be put under local command of the ABDA or British Command as escorts.

BlitzK, just one comment: I have made excellent experiences with evacuating ships from Manila to the east, towards Pearl Harbor! I lost none of the 15 ships I sent east, but suffered horrible losses on the way south. Most of them weren't even detected near Marcus / Wake etc. - just route them carefully around all bases with airfield icons.

OK, two comments! [;)] Here's another trick I learned from irrelevant:

I just stumbled on a way to both deploy these units on the front lines right away where their aviation support is much needed, and at the same time leave them in the Home Islands where they will most rapidly fill out with additional general support and SNLF squads.

Load the Base Force onto a few APs. Once the BF is fully loaded, find the AP with the main part of the unit. Form this single AP into a different TF, then unload it back onto the base it came from. Set this part to accept replacements. Send the rest of the unit (which will have a greater or lesser portion of the unit, depending on how many APs you loaded it onto to begin with) off to wherever, while the main portion stays in the Home Islands, accruing support and SNLF squads.

So if you got some LCUs at the West Coast that need to fill out, but are needed at the front: you can have your cake and eat it too!! [8D]