Improving the E&S screen

[Fred98]

I refer to the screen shot above.

1. - If would be handy if the 2 areas of the screen were separated by an obvious separator.


2. - The main weapon of the unit is question is the 75mm gun. The correct sequence to list the weapons is:

75mm Gun
Machine guns
Rifles

By listing them in any other order is confusing. This applies to each unit in the game.

In the bottom part of the screen, the ammunition ought to be listed in the same sequence.

It would lead to the E&S list being much easier to read.

[Arjuna]

Yeh the separator is a good idea.
 
TT3212 - UI - Unit Data - E&S Tab - Add separator between weapons and supplies
 
I think you're a bit presumptuous with the "correct sequence" comment though. I'll admit that having the prime weapon system at the top is a good idea, however, we would need to add more data to enable this to be sorted properly. You just can't do it on calibre, otherwise you'll end up with PzSchrecks at the top of the list for Inf Companies.
 
TT3213 - UI - Unit Data - E&S Tab - Sort Most Significant Weapon System to the top

[Fred98]

Its not a caliber thing, all I need to know is the main weapon of the unit.
 
Most units are a selection of combined arms.  But it is designated a [............] unit because that is the main weapon of the unit.
 

[Arjuna]

As I said that requires additional data to be stored identifying the said "main" weapon and that will require the Estab designer to enter this for each and every unit - ie more development and more data design work.

[jirik]

Hi Arjuna,

how are APer and AArm values for units counted? Maybe it will be good enough to sort the weapons by total APer value per weapon type?
Or the second option is to put on the first position the weapon with highest APer value, on the second the weapon with the highest AArm value and the rest could stay as is.

How do you see such solution?

J

[Arjuna]

A unit's APerFP is not just a product of the weapons as it incorporates unit effectiveness values. But having said that we could use the raw APerFP component. However, I am reluctant to do so as you may find a Rifle Coy with 1 AT gun that has the highest APerFP value of any single weapon but clearly the units ten machine guns are its principle weapon system.

[jirik]

Well, but I see this a very strange example or maybe problem with system. I believe that 10 HMG must have higher APer value than 1 AT gun.

Do you compare APer value of single weapon or APer value of all weapons of the same time in the unit TOE?

J.

[Fred98]

Most units are to some extent combined arms units.
 
Given that a unit is named a "Panzer 2 battallion"  what is it's main weapon?
 
Given that a unit  is named a "2 pounder AT battallion" what is it's main weapon?
 
Given that I know it's main weapon then I can consider how to deploy it.
 
How would an experienced wargamer deploy a unit named "Tiger tank battallion" ?  Does the unit include any 7.92mm MG42 machine gun infantry teams?   Does anybody care?
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: JIP

Well, but I see this a very strange example or maybe problem with system. I believe that 10 HMG must have higher APer value than 1 AT gun.

Do you compare APer value of single weapon or APer value of all weapons of the same time in the unit TOE?

J.

J,

If you use the sum value of each weapon type then you may find that 300 rifles outpoint the ten MGs. Moreover, in the game you may end up losing 9 of your MGs and the total FP of your rifles would again make them the prime wpn system, which is not what you want.

The only safe way to make sure is to add a flag to that wpn type that the estab designer reckons is the prime weapon system. Then it doesn't matter what happens, casualty/loss wise during the game, the same weapon system will still be the prime wpn system for that unit.

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

Most units are to some extent combined arms units.

Given that a unit is named a "Panzer 2 battallion"  what is it's main weapon?

Given that a unit  is named a "2 pounder AT battallion" what is it's main weapon?

Given that I know it's main weapon then I can consider how to deploy it.

How would an experienced wargamer deploy a unit named "Tiger tank battallion" ?  Does the unit include any 7.92mm MG42 machine gun infantry teams?   Does anybody care?

Since we do name the units so, why all the fuss? I agree it's a nice thing to have and we'll get to it in due course.[:)]

[hank]

This view is one I commented on early in the HttR days.  I still think the graphics could be improved tremendously.  Especially for the armored and artillery units.  In HttR there wasn't even a generic tank image, it used a truck symbol for a Panther tank.
 
I feel like these images will not be improved because of screen space which I understand completely.  However, I made one suggestion many moons ago to make the main combat weapon images a button that would pop up a window of much better sillouettes (maybe even color ones like in PzC or SPWaW) plus some technical info about the weapon.
 
I am no doubt an immersion junkie.  I like the sounds and graphics to enhance the feel of the game.  When I look for a game I can't help but put graphics immersion as an important factor ... of course game play comes first, user interface, etc. comes next etc etc.
 
regards
 

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna
Since we do name the units so, why all the fuss?

Because the name of the unit is the authentic original name and it does not tell us the main weapon of the unit. Instead I have to go searching for it on this screen.

If there are 86 counters on the map I have to look at the E&S of most of them to find out it's main weapon. And yet we are not supposed to micromanage.

There are big differences between the various types of tanks and AT-guns represented in the game.

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: hank

In HttR there wasn't even a generic tank image, it used a truck symbol for a Panther tank.

Are you talking about the units' symbols on their respective counters (the symbols for tanks, motorized units (trucks), armoured recon vehicles (Pumas), etc.)
or about images/units descriptions used in the estabs (ScenMaker) ?
If you meant symbols, I have not come across any truck symbol being displayed on a (Panther) tank unit in HTTR, so far.

On the other hand, in COTA, I've seen PzJäger ("tank hunter") units, consisting of PaK units and using a symbol that looked like a StuG or like a late self-propelled gun, where the latter has not been used/built in 1941.

[hank]

The image for tanks in HttR under the Equipment tab on the side bar menu.  The tank image is OK for the map icon although its a generic symbol which is perfectly fine by me.
 
What I mentioned was for the graphic image on the equipment tab (now called E&S in CotA) in HttR had no tank image.  Now in CotA it has a generic tank image.  I don't have CotA yet so I have to go by the screen shot I've seen here.
 
I had hoped the graphics under the E&S tab would have larger more distinct images of armor specifically where you differentiate between a Sherman and a Panther or a Tiger or a T34, etc.
 
That's all, not a maker or breaker but as I'm mentioned before I like graphics in my strategy games to help with immersion.
 

[Golf33]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

On the other hand, in COTA, I've seen PzJäger ("tank hunter") units, consisting of PaK units and using a symbol that looked like a StuG or like a late self-propelled gun, where the latter has not been used/built in 1941.

You mean the StuG IIIB and the PzJg I?

Two battalions of the former were sent to the Balkans, and the LSSAH took a company of each. Admittedly the PzJg I was not a low-silhouette assault gun like the StuG, rather a 4.7cm AT gun mounted in a fixed shield on top of a PzKw I chassis, but there are only so many symbols to choose from and it's actually fairly challenging to design them due to the tiny size of the image. If you play using mil symbols you'll find that they are shown differently - one as SP armoured artillery, and the other as SP armoured anti-tank.

Cheers
Steve

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98


Because the name of the unit is the authentic original name and it does not tell us the main weapon of the unit. Instead I have to go searching for it on this screen.

If there are 86 counters on the map I have to look at the E&S of most of them to find out it's main weapon. And yet we are not supposed to micromanage.

There are big differences between the various types of tanks and AT-guns represented in the game.

Joe

Have you tried the hot keys for locating units. In some of the larger scenarios I had a difficult time locating AT or arty units quickly, then I took another look at the hot keys-it really simplifies things, especially for large scenarios.

[Fred98]

My suggestion at the top of this thread is directed at the next game rather than as a change to this game.
 
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