Man in Motion Rules and Gameplay Issues

[hack153]

not sure if anyone mentioned this, but some TEs in motion go in front of the OL. sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

anyone want to field this one [8|]?

thanks...

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]hack153[/font][font="courier new"],[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]           I do not want to field this one, because I am not qualified. However, I do want to be fair to MF, even though it is not acceptable and time wasting side affect.[:@][8|][/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]I have posted many times how FBP '98 and other present FB Games have things better or have done the same thing done than MF; but in this case EAS's FB Games has it better than MF and FBP '98.[X(][/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]FBP '98 had both Offensive players and Defensive players that had to go in motion and line-up on a certain Offensive player run into almost every single player in their path to their assignment rather than just find alleys between players and do a circle around groups of players.[font="courier new"][:@][/font][8|][/font]

[Marauders]

Hack, are you talking about the default playbook plays?
 
Those plays look to have motion, but they really do not.  When they are run, the players line up on the line.  Some old plays have old formations that goof up the PDS.  The formations and plays are being cleaned up.
 
Note that tight ends, as well as split ends, are not allowed to go in motion in any of the three versions of football presented by Maximum-Football.  Only flankers and backs can go into motion, and they must remain at least one yard off the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped.  This is valid for CFL and Indoor rules which both allow multiple forward motion prior to the snap.
 
 

[Marauders]

I do not want to field this one, because I am not qualified.

I agree. As you do not yet own the game, I suspect you are not qualified to answer this question in context. That stated, I see that you have made some observations, nevertheless.

I have posted many times how FBP '98 and other present FB Games have things better or have done the same thing done than MF; but in this case EAS's FB Games has it better than MF and FBP '98.

How do you know if you don't own Maximum-Football?

FBP '98 had both Offensive players and Defensive players that had to go in motion and line-up on a certain Offensive player run into almost every single player in their path to their assignment rather than just find alleys between players and do a circle around groups of players.

Poor play design will show poor results. As in the real world, timing on plays is important, and motion players have to time their motion routes not to run into other players. It is important to run plays in the PDS to make sure the assignments work.

- Marauders

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]Marauders[/font][font="courier new"],[/font]

           

Note that tight ends, as well as split ends, are not allowed to go in motion in any of the three versions of football presented by Maximum-Football.

[font="courier new"]Are you communicating to us that TEs are not allowed to go to motion? Whether they come to a stop or just keep going until snap? If so you have not watched enough FB, happens a lot and every game. Of course, depending upon if the TEs are on The LOS, then they do have to have another Receiver cover up that side of the LOS.[/font]

Only flankers and backs can go into motion, and they must remain at least one yard off the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped.

[font="courier new"]In real FB this is also wrong.[/font]

This is valid for CFL and Indoor rules which both allow multiple forward motion prior to the snap.

[font="courier new"]This is different then you posted in the other sentences, if you apply[/font]

forward motion

[font="courier new"]into the other sentences then they would be right. I think you made a typing or communicating mistake here, but never know until posted so.[/font]

[Marauders]

Note that tight ends, as well as split ends, are not allowed to go in motion in any of the three versions of football presented by Maximum-Football.

Are you communicate to us that TEs are not allowed to go to motion? Whether they come to a stop or just keep going until snap? If so you have not watched enough FB, happens a lot and every game. Of course, depending upon if the TEs are on The LOS, then they do have to have another Receiver cover up that side of the LOS.

By defintion, a tight end must be on the line of scrimmage. If he comes off the line, he is then a wing back or slot back just as a flanker that moves up to the line becomes a split end.

Only flankers and backs can go into motion, and they must remain at least one yard off the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped.

In real FB this is also wrong.

Nope, I am correct.

This is valid for CFL and Indoor rules which both allow multiple forward motion prior to the snap.

This is different then you posted in the other sentences, if you apply forward motion into the other sentences then they would be right.

No, it is not different.

CFL and Indoor rules both allow forward motion at the snap and multiple player in motion at the snap, while American rules do not allow either. In all three cases, the man in motion must be at least one yard from the line of scrimmage at the snap of the ball. In all three cases, the only non-line player (linemen and ends) allowed to be within one yard of the line at the snap is the quarterback if he is taking the snap under center.

I think you made a typing or communicating mistake here, but never know until posted so.

I do not believe I have made any errors in my posts in this thread, but I am not infallible.

- Marauders

[hack153]

Hack, are you talking about the default playbook plays?

no. these are my created plays. i actually send the TE in motion off the line of scrimmage.

Note that tight ends, as well as split ends, are not allowed to go in motion in any of the three versions of football presented by Maximum-Football. Only flankers and backs can go into motion, and they must remain at least one yard off the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped. This is valid for CFL and Indoor rules which both allow multiple forward motion prior to the snap

this is really good information to know. i thought the TE could go into motion as they can in real life. good to know. this will save me lots of grief! thanks.

as a side not, if you really don't own the game you should dish out the fitty dollars and buy it. it's well worth the $$$$. maybe they'll have a christmas special and drop $10 off the price. just a thought.

[Great White]

Note that tight ends, as well as split ends, are not allowed to go in motion in any of the three versions of football presented by Maximum-Football.

Are you communicate to us that TEs are not allowed to go to motion? Whether they come to a stop or just keep going until snap? If so you have not watched enough FB, happens a lot and every game. Of course, depending upon if the TEs are on The LOS, then they do have to have another Receiver cover up that side of the LOS.

By defintion, a tight end must be on the line of scrimmage. If he comes off the line, he is then a wing back or slot back just as a flanker that moves up to the line becomes a split end.

[font="courier new"]Do us all a favor when you are going to make a mistake, admite (like I have done at times); instead of spin doctoring players into new positions while plays are being run. A TE is a TE; any body who communicates in football language does not say the TE Joe Blow steps back, the new Wing Back Joe Blow waits a sec to move back on the LOS to become a Split End Joe Blow. There is a reason, because he same player. JUST ADMIT YOU MADE A MISTAKE.[/font]

[font="courier new"]Also, prove post at least the URLs (to all three-FootBall versions of FootBall's <in MF> Rulebooks) where it states that you posted.

By defintion, a tight end must be on the line of scrimmage and cannot leave the line of scriminage. If he comes off the line, he is then a wing back or slot back just as a flanker that moves up to the line becomes a split end.

[font="courier new"]I have noticed you are using old terms of the FootBall time, at least it is for The NFL, Wing Back is an example of one; thus maybe that is where all this confusion comes from. times change, formations change, terms change, USAN FootBall changes (like The NFL has changed a lot and away from such a term)[/font]

As a side note, if you really don't own the game you should dish out the fitty dollars and buy it. it's well worth the $$$$. maybe they'll have a christmas special and drop $10 off the price. just a thought.

[font="Courier New"]Hack153, since you posted off the topic of this thread, hint to those who say I hijack/spam threads.

I will not purchase a subpar FB Games, even subpar to other FB Games out there both of The EAS's Games and FBP '98. Just being honest.[/font]

[Marauders]

Hack, are you talking about the default playbook plays?

no. these are my created plays. i actually send the TE in motion off the line of scrimmage.

All right, there may be some confusion here on nomenclature.

When I say "tight end" I am making a reference to the actual position of a player on the field rather than the player card. By definition, a tight end is a player on the line (an end) that is tight against the tackle (tight). I am not talking about a player that has "tight end" on his football card but can be lined up as flanker, slot back, wing back, or tight end.

I'll check the PDS to see if a wing back can go forward in motion in the game under American rules. I know that was not the case in past builds.

Note that tight ends, as well as split ends, are not allowed to go in motion in any of the three versions of football presented by Maximum-Football. Only flankers and backs can go into motion, and they must remain at least one yard off the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped. This is valid for CFL and Indoor rules which both allow multiple forward motion prior to the snap

this is really good information to know. i thought the TE could go into motion as they can in real life. good to know. this will save me lots of grief! thanks.

As stated above, a player placed on the field as a tight end may not go in motion in real life, but a player who is a "tight end" on his player card may as long as he is not actually line up as a tight end. In the second case, the player may go in motion, so I'll check to see if there is a problem there.

- Marauders

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]hack153[/font][font="courier new"],[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font]&nbsp;
[font="courier new"]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Trust me, as a former High School TE&nbsp;coach, Players could line-up at the ends of the line right next to The OTs, yell-out loud for everyone (including referees and opposing coaches)&nbsp;to hear, "I am a TE", then step back off the LOS and yell-out loud for everyone (including referees and opposing coaches)&nbsp;to hear, "I am a TE" then get back on the LOS and yell-out loud for everyone (including referees and opposing coaches)&nbsp;to hear, "I am a TE." Never receive a single flag, but a heck of a lot teasing and immediate laughs directed at him, and forever; much the same way [font=verdana]Marauders[/font]&nbsp;would if he stated any where around real coaches. Do not buy his BULL SHIT. TEs cane go to motion any where they want and do so all the time.[/font]

[Marauders]

Do us all a favor when you are going to make a mistake, admite (like I have done at times); instead of spin doctoring players into new positions while plays are being run. A TE is a TE; any body who communicates in football language does say the TE Joe Blow steps back, the new Wing Back Joe Blow waits a sec to move back on the LOS to become a Split End Joe Blow. There is a reason, because he same DAMN player. JUST ADMITE YOU MADE A MISTAKE.

I agree, a tight end is a tight end. That is a position on the field, and it must be taken into consideration on every play no matter which player lines up there.

I made no mistake.

I have noticed you are using old terms of the FootBall time, at least it is for The NFL, Wing Back is an example of one; thus maybe that is where all this confusion comes from. times change, formations change, terms change, USAN FootBall changes (like The NFL has changed a lot and away from such a term)

A wing back today is the same as a wing back sixty years ago. A wing back is not a given player name on a football card, it is a player that lines up on a specific place on the field. In this case, it is a player the lines up on the wing (next to and outside of the tackle) and at least one yard off the line of scrimmage (back).

In coaching, the player being refered to is often called the "Y" player. Where he lines up gives him his position on the field.

Also, prove post at least the URLs (to all three-FootBall versions of FootBall's <in MF> Rulebooks) where it states that you posted

This is a basic fundamental of football. Why do you need URL's? I thought you said you were a coach at one time.

- Marauders

[Marauders]

Trust me, as a former High School TE coach, Players could line-up at the ends of the line right next to The OTs, yell-out loud for everyone (including referees and opposing coaches) to hear, "I am a TE", then step back off the LOS and yell-out loud for everyone (including referees and opposing coaches) to hear, "I am a TE" then get back on the LOS and yell-out loud for everyone (including referees and opposing coaches) to hear, "I am a TE." Never receive a single flag, but a heck of a lot teasing and immediate laughs directed at him, and forever; much the same way Marauders would if he stated any where around real coaches.

If that "tight end" of yours steps back off the line of scrimmage and yells "I am a tight end" and stays there without another player becoming an end, the officials will flag your team for illegal formation no matter how many times you protest that you had a "tight end" in the game.

Please do not confuse people here with fan definitions rather than coaching definitions. Creating playbooks requires knowledge of the latter.

- Marauders

[hack153]

Since, you posted off the topic of this thread, hint to those who say I hijack/spam threads.

I will not purchase a subpar FB Games, even subpar to other FB Games out there both of The EAS's Games and FBP '98. Just being honest

nothing i said was off topic of Maximum-Football. all i am saying is to be able to really judge and understand the game, one needs to own the game.

i've played FBP '98, APBA Pro Football (Board and DOS versions), almost every Madden made, most EA NCAA College Football Games, Season Ticket Football 2003, EA's FOF 2000, the new FOF, and The College Years.

After all that, Maximum is the best SIMULATION game that i have played.

it allows me to create my own league, my own rules, my own uniforms, hell almost everything a true sports simulation game fanatic would ever want.

yes, there are issues and it's not perfect, but the IDEA of the game and the GAME MAKER's WILLINGNESS and continual COMMITMENT to PROGRESS the game goes way beyond what any other game has ever done and will probably ever do.

you sound like a passionate sports guy. give the game a try and you'll see the good out-weighs the bad. on this forum we ask a lot of questions about the bad, because the good is good and there is no need to ask about that. (sounds like something "W" would say)

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as for the TE in motion, mine moves from one TE postion to the far end TE postion just fine in games. although he still moves in front of the OL.
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[Marauders]

Here are the field positions for receivers:

[dreamtheatervt]

Well spoken Hack.&nbsp; I agree that the good far outweighs the bad, and it is very comforting to know that DW is so committed to making this game live up to it's enormous potential.
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When I get home I'll see if I can replicate what you are seeing.&nbsp; If I am understanding you correctly, when the TE is trading to the other side, he is running through the neutral zone rather than behind the line.
&nbsp;
On the surface it seems like you are trying to implement what is usually a shift IRL as a motion IG.

[hack153]

i hope i wasn't too preachy. that wasn't my objective.

as for the TE-MIM

TE motions as such: T G C G T TE to TE T G C T

sorry i don't have cool graphics. EDIT: i just added the pic of it. check it out.

the TE goes in the neutral zone when motioning.

thanks for the help DREAM.

[Shaggyra]

Marauders, your are right as usual.[;)] Ends cannot go 'in motion'. All seven of the 'line' players must be set for 1 second before the snap.

Hack, your right also. A TE is allowed to shift before a play and should not pass in front of the OL.


Well, two out of three is not bad.[:D]

[Marauders]

I understand, Hack.  Thanks for posting the picture.

Normally, an end would have to step off the line, come over to the other side, and then reset.  At the same time, the split end would have to step back, and the flanker would have to step up.  This all has to be done prior to having all players in the set for a full second prior to the snap.  Otherwise, it is a penalty for more than one player in motion. 

A player cannot run along the line of scrimmage in motion in any case.

Maximum-Football does not really allow this kind of movement.  It is easier to just flip the play.

[Great White]

[font="Courier New"]Mailed to The NFL, they do a good job of getting back to me, takes a while for more technical questions.[/font]

>>All the official NFL rules are located on the Digest of Rules Page within the section.<<

Where is the rules about what positions of the field are allowed to do?

[font="courier new"]Since, I could not find such rules in the On-Line NFL rule book, I am sure they are some where.[/font]

More clearly where are the rules that answer the agruements like the following?
I have this arguement, as a former High School TE coach, I have always learned that modern day rules make TEs eligiable receivers, without having to change there positions.
Thus, the TE does not change his position ever.
The other person is saying as soon as a TE backs a way from the LOS and out from beside the OT he becomes a wing back or slot back, because the TE is no longer on The LOS and beside the OL. The other person continues to say, that as a result, when TEs goes from next to the box, to more closer to the sidelines they are WRs, not TEs.

Who is right?

[nmleague]

GW you have problems!   Just becuase a player is normally a TE doesnt mean he is always a TE, once he steps off the LOS or splits away from the OT he is no longer in a TE position.  Just as a HB that lines up off the LOS 10 yards outside the TE is no longer a HB, but a FL, or an OG that comes into the game and lines up in the backfield is no long a G but is now a RB.  Positions are dictated by where a player lines up on the field, not by what position he normally may be considered.  Many teams would put a player that is normally a TE in the backfield and then put him in motion or shift him to one side or another, he normally may be a TE , but in this situation he is a RB(or someteams call them an H back) , or if he moves outside he becomes a FL, or if he moves to the LOS outside the OT and if the SE on that side backs up off the LOS then he is again a TE.  Officials dont care one bit about what a player calls himself, a TE that stands up and backs off the LOS doesnt have to say anything to an official, if someone else does not move up to the LOS then the offense has to many men in the backfield, if the TE was the last man on that side on the LOS the OT would now become eligible, but not all levels of football require that you inform the officials that a player is now an eligible receiver.  Teams can create positions names like H back etc. as they want there is no position requirements, as long as rules are being followed you can call a player anythign you want.