Outside runs

[Case250]

I am trying to design a defensive play that will stop the outside run. From what I am seeing most outside running plays net big yards regardless of offensive team or defensive formation type (except against goal line D). Outside plays particularly against a 43 or 34 set average about 9 yards a pop. What are some good tips to stop outside runs. I have experimented with the PDS, but my skills......well not so good.
For example I use NMLs pro offensive playbook sometimes and run Pro Set 46 Power to test my defense against. This play runs the HB off right tackle with no pulling or lead blocker. The HB goes off tackle splits the OLB and DB and often rips off a 30+ yarder too often. I have used stock D plays against it and tried to design my own with little luck from either. The only way I have found to reign in the outside run is to overload that side with an extra linbacker,but this just dosent seem fair and leaves the other side of the line very weak. As I said I have experimented: I have given the OLB (on the running side) run rush logic, but his first several steps are to dart to the center, then by the time of the pitch/handoff he is out of range of the play and he cant react in time to move laterally and make a stop on the HB who would have ran right into his path had he stayed in place. I believe if he had just stayed where he was instead of moving to the center at snap, he would have made the stop (also in this play the OLB is never blocked). I have also used Stop Wait logic, to keep him in his place till just the right time but, this proves to be iffy. Too long and the HB runs past him, not long enough and again he moves toward the center and gets out of position. I just use the 46 Power play to test against, almost any basic outside running play has given me similar results.

The defence that I use is either a base 43 or 34 with the OLB's just outside the DE (DE's line up just outside the OFF tackles or directly opposite the TE's) by anywhere from 1 to 4 yards and behind about anywhere from 1 to 6 yards. This is the way I want the D's in my league to be, so given these parameters can anyone suggest a solution.
As I said I don't like to add extra linbackers to place in the path of the outside runner or spread the defensive line so far down the LOS that someon will be whereever the HB goes (feels like cheating), any way an unblocked OLB should make a few stops against an HB who runs to his side. This is the way I want the D's in my league to be, so given these parameters can anyone suggest a solution.

Any ideas, or tips welcome
Sincerely,
Burned on the outside

[nmleague]

It is difficult to get a defense that stops everything well with this game, but there are things you can do on defense to stop almost every offensive play.  Example if you are using my playbooks both the 43 and 34 defenses have corner blitzes that stop outside runs nicely, but can open up other things.  Overall with the current m2m coverage, outside runs will kill most m2m defenses, the DB react very slow to running plays and very seldom leave their man and come up for strong run support.  On the other hand it seems that zond coverage with the DB lined up about 5 yards deep in the flat does give pretty good support vs outside runs.

I have started to editing the skill ranges for players to make the defense better, so far I have just moved the LB and DL speed ranges up.

Also Im testing changes to the data constants, reducing the reaction time, and the base time that run blocks are held.

I have been busy lately so havent had as much time to experiment or work on more defenses to shut down the run, but I think I will be able to do more now.

Im going to try combinations of zone and m2m, say zone on one side with m2m on the other, or with DB in the flat with a read logic and the S playing m2m. Mainly trying to find some way to stop runs but not opening up other things to much.

With the changes to the speed ranges and the data constants im using now, the defense is doing a better job vs runs, when I do some more testing and modifying I will share what I have done so others can try them.

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]Case250[/font],

            [font="courier new"]In case you do not already know, I do not have the latest copy of MF; sorry I forgot to mention that first-time-I know how focused some members are on here about that.
Try a 3-5 and place the 3-Zoning DBs at 5-yards, from LOS. Have a DT play the gap between the Center and strong side Guard, a DE play the gap between the strong side Guard and strong side Tackle, another DE play the gap between the weak side Guard and weak side Tackle, a OLB/DE play play the gap between the strong side Tackle and strong side Tight End or WR, another OLB/DE play play the gap between the weak side Tackle and the weak side Tight End or WR. All Defenders on the LOS should be as close as possible and DT allowed to free-lance/reading the Center, but primary focused on the run, thus most be best DLman and strongest. DEs allowed to reading the OGs, Run Rush Balanced and if pass pass rush aggressive, pursuit balanced. OLB/DEs should be on pass rush, for greatest amount of pressure, and most aggressive chase setting, relying on DEs, OLBs and DBs to cover cut backs and etc.[/font]
[font="courier new"]Have MLB positioned facing the gap between the Center and weak side Guard, OLB position facing the gap between strong side Tight End or WR and the other strong side Tight End or WR, another OLB positioned facing the gap between weak side Tight End or WR and open field. The MLB should be at least 4-yards, from the LOS, while the OLBs should be 3-yards or 2 1/2 yards, from the LOS. The MLB should be faking biltz, read, with focus on HB or HB1, run aggressive setting, if HB or HB1 block for pass rush aggressive or if HB or HB1 goes out for pass cover balance. The strong side OLB should be faking biltz, focus on HB or HB1, run aggressive setting, if HB or HB1 block for pass rush aggressive or if HB or HB1 goes out for pass Zone middle of the defense's backfield- 5-yard line to 15-yard line, and the weak side OLB should be Faking Biltz, focus on FB or HB2, run aggressive, if FB or HB2 block for pass rush aggressive or if FB or HB2 goes out for pass cover balance. Of course, with all LBs faking biltzes, you will have to create 4-plays with only difference is run biltzes, by each indiviual LB blitzing by themselves and one-all out LBs blitz. Those blitzes and pass rushes will also kill play actions. [/font]
[font="courier new"]DBs need to be zoning for no more than 5-yard line to 15-yard line*, cover of the top (not underneath-big plays possible), coverage at balanced and lined up on the offense's 3-best Receivers. Facing the strong side (has two-Receivers) of the offense must have two-DBs, covering the entire width of that side (facing offense's strong side) of the of defensive backfield*. The weak side DB should have same zone as the strong side DBs, except only one-DB covering the entire width of that side (facing offense's weak side) of the of defensive backfield*, thus should by your best DB.[/font]
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[font="courier new"]If play action you have hopefully at least 5-smart Defenders acting the QB, on any one play, and even more aggressive with all out blitzing play in stead of rush reading RBs than blitzing LBs.[/font]


[font="courier new"]nmleague[/font],

Overall with the current m2m coverage, outside runs will kill most m2m defenses, the DB react very slow to running plays and very seldom leave their man and come up for strong run support.  On the other hand it seems that zond coverage with the DB lined up about 5 yards deep in the flat does give pretty good support vs outside runs.

[font="courier new"]In real FootBall Zone defenses, thus Zoning DBs, always play the run better; because they only zone so far and do not follow Receivers all over the field. Maybe it is a little too much difference, but it sounds like it is just simulating real FootBall. Thus, no need to adjust any thing, if you want real simulation.[/font]
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[nmleague]

Case, I have some playing around with defenses today and found two things that at working pretty good vs the outside run.  Using the 43P or 43O defensive set from my playbooks, I set all the DL to pass rush, the MLB is set to key on HB, both outside linebacks move about 3 yards forward and toward the outside and then have a read logice.  The two DB and one S are playing m2m keying on speed 1-3.  The other S is lined up about 10 yards deep in the center of the field with a read logic.  The safety is like a FS, I like this player to be about the fastest on the team, with this defense he is really flying to the ball carrier outside.  THE OLB with the move and read command are playing it pretty well also.  One problem that you might have spotted is that is the offense comes out with 4 R there is not a player with m2m coverage on the 4th R, the FS will pick one up if they run a patern near him.  Also RB out of the backfield dont have m2m coverage.  This is mainly a run stop defense that probably wouldnt be used in passing situations and I would probably audible out of if the offense had 3 R.  Also as I mentioned above my data constants have been changed so my results would be different.  When practicing with the power play you mentioned above and other outside runs, most were stopped for less than a 5 yard gain.

[Great White]

[font="Courier New"]Case250,[/font]

This is the way I want the D's in my league to be, so given these parameters can anyone suggest a solution.
As I said I don't like to add extra linbackers to place in the path of the outside runner or spread the defensive line so far down the LOS that someon will be whereever the HB goes (feels like cheating), any way an unblocked OLB should make a few stops against an HB who runs to his side. This is the way I want the D's in my league to be, so given these parameters can anyone suggest a solution.

[font="Courier New"]When I reread your post, after posting my reply, I noticed the above part of your post. So, I am sorry, if I wasted your time with my reply/5-3 defense.[:(]

Why do you consider adding extra-LBs &/or creating more DLmen as cheating (or just feels like cheating, to you)[&:]

We all know of a lot of Franchises that did not and currently franchises that do not have enough decent, let alone good, OLBs to tackle any RB (let alone HB) that runs to the outside. Also, we all know of Franchises that did have and currently Franchises that do have one-super RB, let alone HB, that is probably going to make OLBs miss at least 60% of the time.

So you are a commissioner, of the league you participate in?[/font]

[Marauders]

I have stopped outside runs by keying on the backs and bringing a safety into a short zone.  Having a lineman stay at home also helps - even if it is to just tie up blockers.
 
There is no wonder play that will stop all runs or passes.  Just like in real football, there is a guessing game going on between the offense and the defense.