Best way to play each power

[McGuire]

ORIGINAL: megalomania2003

But how, any intelligent Austrian and Prussian players will set up so that they can join before France can reach them

What about the Russian navy - what will you promise the russian? Allied to Spain and France it will actually give a good chance of victory, Allied to Great Britain it will doom thos chances.

Right and right!

To the first: Get SP on you side to attack AU from the south. Or TU from the east. That'll draw some forced off your frontline! If it doesn't - build up a static front for now and wait for SP/TU to occupie some cities. Will cause big probs for AU.

Concerning the second: Get RU on your side for sure! Promise him Scandinavia, even Denmark! And promise them provinces of GB! Because if you get to crush the GB fleet, make sure he'll never recover!
Invasion of GB is no.1 priority!
Unconditional peace:
C4 - Take 3 Provinces!
C6 - Remove that crappy Admiral!
C1.c - Remove the 2 lagest fleets (I'd recommend that one - but it's up to you)

Just think about GB with Ireland, Scotland and Wales not belonging to the "Empire". That's a loss of 21$ and 7MP. Leaving him with 30$/9MP. And you've got him where he belongs: An inch below your feet - just waiting to be crushed again....

[Joisey]

Getting Russia to join a Spanish/French alliance would be nice theoretically, but I've never seen it happen.
 
But I have seen plenty of Austrian and Prussian players fail to set up their armies near one another.  In fact, I've seen the Austrians mass in the Tyrol for the terrain advantage (and the Tyrolian Korps) more often than I've seen them set up on the Prussian frontier.

[morvwilson]

Give me one year of peace as Fr in the grand campaign and I don't care if Pr and Au unite!
But, as france I think that it would be a glorious thing to see the Prussian flag flying in cities like Copenhagen, Stockholm and Riga!
And who could argue against the poor and down troden peasantry of Italy, Sicily and Odessa being better off under Austrian Rule?
Does the Au or Pr want a fleet? I will help them build them!
If I can turn one or both of these countries to my side as Fr. I need not fear for the rest of the game!
If they give me a year of peace in the beginning, almost as good! Just let the Au and Pr spend the PP to declare war.
 
If playing Pr or Au, I tend to grab up all the minors I can. Because when you loose the first clash with Fr, you had better have something to offer!

[McGuire]

ORIGINAL: morvwilson

Give me one year of peace as Fr in the grand campaign and I don't care if Pr and Au unite!
But, as france I think that it would be a glorious thing to see the Prussian flag flying in cities like Copenhagen, Stockholm and Riga!
And who could argue against the poor and down troden peasantry of Italy, Sicily and Odessa being better off under Austrian Rule?
Does the Au or Pr want a fleet? I will help them build them!
If I can turn one or both of these countries to my side as Fr. I need not fear for the rest of the game!
If they give me a year of peace in the beginning, almost as good! Just let the Au and Pr spend the PP to declare war.

If playing Pr or Au, I tend to grab up all the minors I can. Because when you loose the first clash with Fr, you had better have something to offer!

If PR/AU give you a year in the beginning - they've done something dead wrong!
An PR in Sweden? You MUST be kidding... There is RU and GB who want to have it! And one of them will surely get it!!!
What about AU in Italy... Well if FR is done with - AU might be going for it and might be able to keep it. With FR raging in europe - there is absolutely no way for AU to keep Italy against FR and SP!

If either PR or AU join the "dark side" (meaning FR-side) of the force - the game is done before it started! You'll crush the other unconditionally (=36 month) and than the one who was dumb enough to follow you (= another 24 / 36 month). And when you think it's time to go for them again. First take one, than the other! Seriously, to have either PR or AU on FR's side, that one must be as dumb as can be....
As PR/AU I've always declared war without losing PPs. Right before the game started! Clear front there!

And by the way: You should always gather as many minors as you can get! Not only as AU/PR!

My two cents!

[morvwilson]

(picture deep sea diving breathing equipment sound effects here) Join with me Au/Pr and side by side we will rule the galaxy![:D]
Of course part of this is kidding around, if it wasn't fun why do it? Just a little thinking outside the box.
Br and Ru will typically fight Fr to the last drop of germanic blood. Econ wise, Fr can be pretty generous. Plus it costs nothing to give away some-one elses land!
Drive to the East! (can't spell it in German) Maybe Fr can use Au/Pr as buffers against Ru.

[megalomania2003]

ORIGINAL: Joisey
But I have seen plenty of Austrian and Prussian players fail to set up their armies near one another.  In fact, I've seen the Austrians mass in the Tyrol for the terrain advantage (and the Tyrolian Korps) more often than I've seen them set up on the Prussian frontier.

Bad play can happen and will often negate even the best plans (together with bad/good luck).

An Austrian player who prefers the terrain advantage to joining with the Prussian corps should shoot himself and save the French the trouble - not that we are talking about much trouble.

I agree that getting Tu or Spain to aid you is fine, but the Allies should still be able to hold off the other while the majority of their force ( together with the Russian if he can be bought - Poland anyone)

[Joisey]

Has anyone made such a Faustian deal with France as Russia?  Was it worth it?  I suppose if you thought you could become a dominant power it would be tempting, but helping to subdue Prussia and Austria is like a quarterback stabbing his offensive line in the back.
 
Plus, if Russia crosses G.B., the Royal Navy can do evil things to the Russians when they try to take Sweden.

[morvwilson]

ORIGINAL: Joisey

Plus, if Russia crosses G.B., the Royal Navy can do evil things to the Russians when they try to take Sweden.

As the Fr, this is exactly the type of conflict I would love to see!
Divide you enemies, let them rip each other apart, then walk in and clean up the mess!

[McGuire]

@Joisey
Yes I've seen the deal you discribe aus "Faustean"! Unfortunately I was PR! I had to decide which front to torn to... And as I must admit, FR offered the better deal:
- Conditional peace
- Saxony, Hesse, Duchies, Hannover and everything north he left to me!

So I made a quick deal with TU, pissed off GB by taking Scaninavia and had a quick war against RU which ended unconditionally (he didn't accept the CP when it was offered)!
But of course this meant that there was actually no one to stop FR. We tried to get up an alliance AU/GB/PR/SP later in the game but the logistics killed us befor we were even near!


Just one more thing in general:
As PR do you offer Poland to RU to buy him? IT costs you provinces! And I always like to have those polish provinces in case I need just one more criterium to get dominant....

[morvwilson]

For me, if Ru wants me to give up territory, I am going to talk to Fr! One of the problems with Pr is you are cash starved (not to mention leader starved!). In my opinion, Pr just can't afford to surrender territory.
Of course, they also can't afford enemies both to the east and west, and if Ru wants me to surrender provences, he is no friend of mine!

[megalomania2003]

ORIGINAL: morvwilson

For me, if Ru wants me to give up territory, I am going to talk to Fr! One of the problems with Pr is you are cash starved (not to mention leader starved!). In my opinion, Pr just can't afford to surrender territory.
Of course, they also can't afford enemies both to the east and west, and if Ru wants me to surrender provences, he is no friend of mine!

In my gaming group we generally do not play with alternate dominance rule. They are simply to easy to block.

With regards to Russia I would say that if he wants Poland for nothing then it is unfriendly, but what if he offers a serious assist against France in exchange for Poland - and to sit doing nothing (for or against you) if he isn't given something. As Russia I would never aid Prussia and Austria for free.

[morvwilson]

Against a smart Fr player, Ru wanting Au/Pr to pay them for help, will play into the Fr player's hands. Because as FR I would offer PR territories like Hesse, Duchies and Hanover and assistance with a Danish and Russian campaign (Including loan of leaders). To AU I would offer Bavaria, Wurtemberg, Baden and anything they want in Italy plus assistance with a Russian campaign or Bulkan Campaign. Plus I am not the type of FR to back stab once I have one or both of these powers on my side.

Now picture yourself the AU or PR and which offer looks better to you?

[McGuire]

@morvwilson
Just my opinion!
If there's a price tag to RU help, it cannot be PR provinces!

But maybe PR help in a RU campain for scandinavia or AU help against TU is reasonable...

[morvwilson]

Thus the conclusion, there has to be a lot of reasonableness and a minimum of greed if FR is going to be defeated. If Ru needs help, it should be supplied by BR not AU or PR they have enough work on their hands just surviving!

[megalomania2003]

ORIGINAL: morvwilson

Against a smart Fr player, Ru wanting Au/Pr to pay them for help, will play into the Fr player's hands. Because as FR I would offer PR territories like Hesse, Duchies and Hanover and assistance with a Danish and Russian campaign (Including loan of leaders). To AU I would offer Bavaria, Wurtemberg, Baden and anything they want in Italy plus assistance with a Russian campaign or Bulkan Campaign. Plus I am not the type of FR to back stab once I have one or both of these powers on my side.

Now picture yourself the AU or PR and which offer looks better to you?

Except that to win the game they have to fight France at some point. Going against Russia and with France is not going to make Russia or Great Britain disposed towards offering assistance - so they likely have to fight the French alone.

I agree that this is an option against a very greedy Russian, but in this game France is more a problem for Austria and Prussia so some price for Russian help is reasonable.

[megalomania2003]

ORIGINAL: McGuire

@morvwilson
Just my opinion!
If there's a price tag to RU help, it cannot be PR provinces!

But maybe PR help in a RU campain for scandinavia or AU help against TU is reasonable...

The price does not need to be Prussian provinces, but if the offer is help in a scandinavian campaign this can be done by Russia without help. The swedish army or navy is not that large.

Help from Austria is an option, money from Great Britain would also be nice.

[yammahoper]

I'll say it again, Fr NEEDS to hit Pr, HARD. Fr doesn't need territory from Pr, though that would be nice, what Fr NEEDS is to reduce the Pr cav by a considerable number, which greatly taxes his resources later/throughout the game to replace, a cash drain likely to occur from GB. GB main power is its cash, and Fr does very well when it bleeds GB as much as possible, limiting ships and cash on hand for whatever the GB player has in mind. Also, if Pr gets out of the war with cav intact, then it must face a good army with a great general. Cav wins battles in EiA, make no mistake about that that.

yamma

[morvwilson]

ORIGINAL: megalomania2003

ORIGINAL: McGuire

@morvwilson
Just my opinion!
If there's a price tag to RU help, it cannot be PR provinces!

But maybe PR help in a RU campain for scandinavia or AU help against TU is reasonable...

The price does not need to be Prussian provinces, but if the offer is help in a scandinavian campaign this can be done by Russia without help. The swedish army or navy is not that large.

Help from Austria is an option, money from Great Britain would also be nice.

This sort of went into the wrong direction. I did not mean Pr help in a french invasion of Ru but a french help in a Pr invasion of Ru. The idea is to get PR and AU to march east instead of west.

[McGuire]

ORIGINAL: megalomania2003
The price does not need to be Prussian provinces, but if the offer is help in a scandinavian campaign this can be done by Russia without help. The swedish army or navy is not that large.

Help from Austria is an option, money from Great Britain would also be nice.

Huh??
I'm a bit confused! Are you thinking about GB money for a RU campain for scandinavia?

I don't see that'll happen! RU wants it - GB wants it, too! But what has PR to offer for RU help against FR! Poland, help in scandinavia,... Anything else I haven't thought of??

[morvwilson]

My original train of thought was in the event of a Pr/Fr Allaince.
Usually, in the games I have played, Russia's first move was to take out Sw and if Br has not taken Denmark they take that next. Meanwhile Pr is busy grabbing up germanic principalities and possibly helping out in pounding AU.
In order to win the game you need PP so you can rack up VP and minor neutrals only get you so far. So, around spring of 06 say, Fr lends assistance to a PR invasion of RU, to gain PP for PR. Then as a peace condition, PR can demand SW or maybe some of RU's polish provences.
There are two places on the board where I have a tough time finding reason for the French army to go, that is Spain (as another has already pointed out) and Russia, especially if FR can get Pr and/or AU to do it for them.