Any thoughts? Strange behavior?

[barbarossa2]

Any thoughts on why the 1/143 would cancel an attack and do whatever it is doing in this picture? I am not a COTA expert yet. But it seems odd. Because I know I didn't ACTUALLY tell them to go there. To me it looks like all the suboordinates are doing well / advancing

[barbarossa2]

Its neighboring HQ has done the same thing. Could I have cancelled the attacks by using keyboard commands in my haste to type chat messages?

[barbarossa2]

In fact, here is another one in the same sector which has decided on a defend order...instead of attacking to the south off the map. Seems to be doing rather well also.

[barbarossa2]

Here's another. I know I NEVER gave these guys a defend order. Not with the mouse anyway. Can I have done this with the keyboard? These guys are supposed to be attacking.

[Arjuna]

In the first example, I am assuming you gave a direct attack order to the Bn. Where did it start from? Where was the FUP?

[barbarossa2]

In fact, I had so many problems with this attack, it was driving me nuts. For 24 hours, the units seemed to just sit there. This shot is at 0732 hours on day three. The shots from the previous posts were 24 hours later.

Seemed whenever I checked them, the units of the HQs involved were either just sitting there, retreating, or juts sitting there... having tea.

All of my attacks went like this. It seemed that multi HQ attacks just SAT there.

I do have saved games. But it was a multi player game (by the way, I think it would be nice to be able to chat online after the results. The game ended, I was shown the results screen, and I was cut off. Too bad.

[barbarossa2]

Hey Dave, the FUP wasn't anywhere near that. All of the attacks which I attempted to organize over the course of 2 days were given the FUP at the location shown on the map below.

[barbarossa2]

Here is a shot of the action. Note the time.

[barbarossa2]

Here is a shot of the same units 6 hous later. Engineer batallion withdrawing. This attack was driving me nuts. Most of the subs are doing well. Please note that I am not saying that there is a problem with COTA. I am just confused as heck.

[barbarossa2]

I was having problems like this on the northern front near Thermopylae. I spent a whole day waiting for my attacks to materialize. Watching units in multi HQ attacks just sit there. Or move forward, and appear to deploy. Then move backwards.

Here is an interesting picture. This HQ was part of a multi HQ attack to the east (poorly placed perhaps...but I was just testing). Its units settled in close to the FUP and I thought okay...they will attack...finally. And then, they started moving backwards. After waiting 24 hours for this attack to get going, I was going crazy. I checked to see what this HQ was doing, and I saw this...

It had already pulled out of the line with the armored units in front, and was moving along this counter clockwise path (away from the attack)

[Arjuna]

First off I see now that this is a complex attack ( ie it has subHQs ). I would say that your controlling HQ has replanned or bunkered down. Basically I need saved games from just aftert he original attack order took place, just before the errant behaviour and just after the errant behaviour. Email them to me and I'll check them out.

[barbarossa2]

Dave,

Is that support@panthergames.com?

Chris

[06 Maestro]

[font="times new roman"]There is another issue here.  Mixed in with the mountain infantry are what appears to be motorized infantry.  This becomes an issue in this type of terrain.  Some of the paths are almost cliffs.  Remember there is approximately 100 meters (IIRC) elevation change for each contour “line”.  This would be quite a workout for a mountain unit even w/o anyone shooting at them.  [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]If I understand the system correctly, the units firing down hill have better effect, while the target unit is more vulnerable.   Although I can’t see the defending units very well, it could be that your advance units are simply being held up by the enemy set up in very good defensive ground.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Do the right click thing on the map and check out “Z”.  Those hills (some cliffs) would cause a heart attack for many COTA players attempting a lazy 24 hour hike.  I’m not saying that mountain troops can not do it, but take a look at the other units involved.  I suspect that this is part of the problem.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
 

[06 Maestro]

Ahh, I see the enemy units.  I think there are just too many bloking the pass.  Concentrated artillery is what is needed to get infantry through that pass.  Hopefully, they will move at the correct time, as the enemy will no doubt move back into their good positions sonn after the arty stops.

[barbarossa2]

You know, I was wondering that too. That is why I said it might not be a true "problem" with COTA. However, my units, combined with the engineers, failed to even launch an attack, and then headed off to bunker down somewhere I never even clicked.

That is what confused me.

But I was willing to accept and believe that the Allied artillery was simply pinning my formations everywhere. But I had offensives on the eastern side of the battlefield that stalled in the same way as well...until I stopped using complex attacks and went to simple battalion level attacks. When I switched back to giving orders to units on a battalion level, without mixing units and HQs, things seemed to hum along in the east...however, here it remained motionless...well...there was retrograde motion.

06 Maestro...do you usually give orders at battalion level? Company level? Do you use complex attacks? While playing this game, I started combining units from different commands. A Panzer battalion here, an infantry battalion there, and a few engineering units thrown in for good measure...click...click...click...Assault...and nothing.

Not that I hadn't figured out how to move units on the battlefield. My AAR for Elasson which I recently posted shows that. But this time, in complex attacks, I just COULDN'T get my units to move to contact. In fact, I didn't get a single point for destroying the enemy in this scenario! It was a decisive defeat. [&:]

[simovitch]

06 Maestro is right. A mixed (foot/motorized) force given a task will attempt to solve the pathing as if it were all motorized. In broken-wooded-hilly terrain I learned to detach any motorized support units from my Bn's at the get-go.

Another alternative in this situation is to try using road-column formation in the attack order. Though not the best way to attack, it may be the best option for a motorized formation to bust through a roadblock in woods or on a steep road.

When I order a formation to do something and it just sits there unresponsive I tend to view this as a command-control "feature" where I need to get in my command car and personally drive up and kick the commander in the a** to get him going again. For me it just adds to the whole experience of realism.[8D]

[06 Maestro]

My current (and improved) method is to build up a Bn task force to max size so as to reduce the number of subordinates to the highest HQ. In the heat of battle I sometimes get carried away with giving individual units orders, or changing Bn orders which can lead to overload and serious delays.

I have run into “confused units” a few times, but it was the commander’s fault (whoever that was[:(]). I have also have caused problems in defensive operations by re-attaching units just at the wrong time to stall movement-this will take a little getting used to.

I can say that I have, on average, better luck in units moving out on time when I issue orders to a higher HQ; regiment, or even brigade. I am figuring out some quidelines as to how far I can go in micromanaging an operation relative to it's size. In bigger operations, I'm leaning to just controling engineers and some of the artillery.

I just recently noticed that some companies have a command capacity of 1. This makes it possible to create company combat teams of AT and infantry or whatever-quite usefull.

[HansBolter]

Is it possible there is an additional delay invloved in attaching inorganic units to a command?

In most cases I tend to command by bn whith very few inorganic attachments.

In large scenarios where large forces either start on the board or arrive enmass I tend to command by regiment with some detached bns. I have had no problems with regimental sized forces pushing off on time unless I am ordering completely exhausted troops to push forward, then they take thier sweet time, resting up a bit before the push off.

I did experience one small anomoly in the Foothills of the Gods scenario where a corps asset kradshutz company received independent orders from me to move from a town on the flank of the attack north of the mountain pass to move through the pass down the completely cleared major road to a point near the exit location on the south edge of the map and after moving two thirds of the way down the board suddenly started moving north again. A quick check of it's path showed that it had decided to move all the way back to the northwest corner of the map and exit, well north of the location it was in when it received the orders. [X(]

Since it was an independent company with a very short orders delay I simply wiped the old order and gave it a new order to move to the location I originally intended for it and it pretty quickly turned around and headed south to the proper location.

I can't begin to guess why a unit two thirds of the way along to completeling an order to move near the south edge of the map would suddenly decide to reverse course and exit the map in the northwest corner.

Since the anomoly didn't have a serious impact on the scenario or its eventual outcome I chalked it up to the chaos of the battlefield.

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Is it possible there is an additional delay invloved in attaching inorganic units to a command?

Shouldn't be; they get an operations order and some food if the new HQ does not forget about them-just a "bump on the log".

Seriously though, I would expect that there would be, only if the new HQ was preping for a new order prior to the attachment.

Experts?

[Arjuna]

Is it possible there is an additional delay invloved in attaching inorganic units to a command?

 
Not directly, but non-organic attachments add more to the staff load. If this exceeds the staff capacity then every unit in the command will suffer increased order delays.