Tank warfare?

[Pergite!]

Hi

I lately has begun playing the Maleme Historical Campaign. Now with the patch and alot of spare time I thought it finally was about time to enjoy this game at its fullest. I play as
the Germans and its close to midnight on the first day.

My campaign is going well above expectation. I have the airfield and hill 107 and the arrival of the Gebirgsjägers are scheduled to arrive the next day. My plan is now to hold the airfield and spare my troops from more casualties until their reinforcements arrive. I have advanced out 2km into a sunfan formation around the airfield and am planning to trade ground for time when/if the allied counter attack comes.

The only problem I have now is that there are three Matilda tanks driving around on the waterline north of the airfield. They didnt surrender when my forces passed them and now they effectivly are behind my lines. They have a very poor Anti-Persnl value so they dont pose much threat to my FJ´s, but more heavy equipment are on the way, and will soon land right in front of them.

I have pushed those lousy tanks out on the beach, but they just keep coming back. Now I even have diverted a whole PzJg coy back from the frontline to try to deal with them. They have 11 Pak36 AT guns positioned 500m from the pesky tanks but they dont see to have much effect. I have let them stand their fireing away on their own, and also directly told them to fire on the tanks but to no avail.

Considering the actuall record of the brittish tanks during the first days of the invasion, I am totally puzzeled by these three tanks.

Any suggestion as to how I best should take them out?

[HansBolter]

This is one of my favorite scenarios and I have played it a number of times.

I have commented before on just how pesky those Matildas can be.

The reality is that the German antitank gun of this periosd of the war is 37mm, which doesn't have a prayer's chance in hell of penetrating the armor of a Matilda. The Matildas were very heavily armored for early war tanks and were armed with pea shooters.

You can tie up considerable assets trying to take them out, but it is best just to neutralize them by channelizing their retreats as best as you can by applying direct fire, either in the form of the impotent antitank guns, or one or two of the independent glider companies, and by regular application of artillery and airstrikes. Even with all of this it can take anywhere form 3-5 days of constant harrassment to get them to actually surrender.

Since they have such a poor antipersonal value, the reality is the threat they constitute to the glider formations rear area is more of a percieved threat than a real one. Just chase them away with fire any time they wander into a vital area and don't waste too many assets obsessing over "cleaning up your rear area".

[Helpless]

That's a hard task, since 38PAK are useless against Matildas. LG40 might have some success, but not against the front armor. In my game they did surrended after long cut off on day 3. Guess it was due to low supplies&morale.

This thread has more details:
tm.asp?m=1222212

[HansBolter]

Thanks for the link to my thread on the same topic Helpless. [:)]

I kew I had referred to them as "pesky" before. [:D]

[Pergite!]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The reality is that the German antitank gun of this periosd of the war is 37mm, which doesn't have a prayer's chance in hell of penetrating the armor of a Matilda. The Matildas were very heavily armored for early war tanks and were armed with pea shooters.

But in reality, during the actual Crete invasion, the Matildas, and basically all Brittish tanks kept a horrible record. The tanks at Maleme is a specially sad chapter. I guess you know about the May 20 counteratack? It was supported with two matildas. On only had Anti-tank rounds and besides that got its turret disables quite early. The other actually had 15mm HE rounds, the problem was that the tank had a 40mm cannon.[8|]

Anyway, single tanks are usually sitting ducks for infantry, that is why they need their own infantry as protection. I will se if they can be assaulted into sumbission somehow during the night. I will otherwise count on that my regimental base unit has enough spine to fend them of if they ever decide to retake the airstrip.


I now actually remember my first encounter with the Matildas, in the old Panzer Genral game. They where indeed hard nuts to crack with the early Panzers.

Thanks for the advice!

[HansBolter]

If you check out the linked thread I started on teh same subject you'll see that I lamented that even infantry close assaults failed again and again to actually destroy the tanks. All I could do was constantly force them to retreat.

I complained that infantry close assaults should have a better chance of killing the tanks and some one pointed out that infantry close assault antitank tactics had yet to evolve at this point in the war and it probably didn't warrant a design change.

Keeping them constantly under fire and retreating for several days will eventually lead to a surrender, probably from lack of supplies and low morale, as some one pointed out in the other thread.

The main point is not to let yourself get overanxious regarding thier presence in your rear areas as they constitute little real threat.

[Helpless]

ORIGINAL: Pergite!

On only had Anti-tank rounds and besides that got its turret disables quite early.

Unfortunately all kind of disablements and operation losses are not yet in the game.

[Pergite!]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
If you check out the linked thread I started on teh same subject you'll see that I lamented that even infantry close assaults failed again and again to actually destroy the tanks. All I could do was constantly force them to retreat.

I read the thread (discovered that I actually had been posting in it as well [8|]), but decided to give an assault a try. The tanks surrenderd faitly quickly when they where squezed between my base rgt and a charging FJ coy. They had been taking a beating before that, so I think their surrender was caused by multiple factors.

[Pergite!]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Unfortunately all kind of disablements and operation losses are not yet in the game.

Friendly fog of war would probably simulate the most problems encountered during the invasion. It functions very well in POA2, but the WW2 setting would IMO make a very bleak simulation with so much realism. You would be able to make very few interactions, but done well, i guess even that would be fun.

[BMD]

POA2?

[Fred98]

Where would you use friendly FOW????
 
 
 

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

Where would you use friendly FOW????

I think he was referring more to suffering the effects of friendly fog of war rather than "using" it.

[Pergite!]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

Where would you use friendly FOW????

I think he was referring more to suffering the effects of friendly fog of war rather than "using" it.

Exactly!

As a commander you only have a very vauge idea of where your actual troops are. Modern technology enables you to have a godlike view if your units are equipped with some kind of GPS and a transmitting device. In other cases you have to rely on that your troops report in on a regular basis.
Using the radio is of course a bad thing on the modern battlefield because the signals transmitted just as easily can be used by the oppositions Sigint units to pinpoint you. Therefore its a balancing act every commander has to face regarding how much information he actually needs, and it soon becomes a real puzzle to create a picture of your own forces, just as it is to come to grip of where the bad guys are.

In WW2 communications where even more scarce, and the reability of wireless systems where often very low. I always play with painfull realistic delays, and even that is too easy if you consider what the commanders fighting during WW2 had to work with.

POA2 is Point of Attack 2, a game from HPS. Its a really complex simulation of modern day fighting.