Greetings. I'm wondering how this next patch will affect scenarios. I'm asking because it looks like some of the new features might make all current scenarios unplayable. Just not sure about it.
Will all the scenarios in the original db need to be changed? If so, will this be done with the patch? How about all the scenarios in user made dbs? Will the patch make them obsolete until the scenario designers update them?
Scenarios
Moderator: Harpoon 3
RE: Scenarios
Bump. Anybody home?
RE: Scenarios
Ok, so each db modder will somehow need to update before it can be used. An editor may or may not be issued for that.
How about the original db that comes with the game? Will it be updated as part of the patch?
How about the original db that comes with the game? Will it be updated as part of the patch?
RE: Scenarios
Bump again.
Here's what I'm still wondering. When the patch comes out, will the original db that came with the game be upgraded to be compatible with the new features in the patch? Or will there be NO compatible db and therefore the game will be unplayable? This is a legitimate concern since there has been no mention of upgrading this db to include the new patch features.
Here's what I'm still wondering. When the patch comes out, will the original db that came with the game be upgraded to be compatible with the new features in the patch? Or will there be NO compatible db and therefore the game will be unplayable? This is a legitimate concern since there has been no mention of upgrading this db to include the new patch features.
RE: Scenarios
What I would expect is that the included scenarios and database will run. However, I expect the included scenarios will not be tuned or re-created to restore the original game play intent of those scenarios. That approach has become rather a tradition in Harpoon, Harpoon Classic included (i.e. the EC2003 scenarios are the EC2000 scenarios with different database and game rules, however the EC2003 scenarios are run with a 60nm range Phoenix missile whereas EC2000 has 110nm Phoenix). So while the game will work, the scenarios will feel somewhat different, not neccessarily a bad thing, not neccessarily a good thing.
The standard dislcaimer applies here that are used on my other prognostications [;)]. I don't have the inside scoop, just experience of the historical answers to the questions posed.
The standard dislcaimer applies here that are used on my other prognostications [;)]. I don't have the inside scoop, just experience of the historical answers to the questions posed.
RE: Scenarios
I'm pretty sure that the scenarios will require a rather extensive makeover to work with the upcoming 3.7 patch. From what I've seen and heard so far, if the scenarios shipped with the game aren't rebuilt, they may or may not play the way the designers had intended.
But then, we have rebuilt a bunch of scenarios from the original H3 release to work with the DB2000 database. Those scens will be updated to work with 3.7 even if the official scenarios aren't:
http://www.harpoonhq.com/harpoon3/origi ... index.html
(The scenarios currently posted on the above page will only work with the DB2000 v6.5.31 database, which means you may encounter some 'challenges' if you try to play them in 3.7. These issue will of course be solved once the updated DB2000 v10.0.0 and the fixed 3.7 exe is released. In the meantime we suggest you install your Harpoon 3.6 and DB2000 v6.5.31, and use those.)
But then, we have rebuilt a bunch of scenarios from the original H3 release to work with the DB2000 database. Those scens will be updated to work with 3.7 even if the official scenarios aren't:
http://www.harpoonhq.com/harpoon3/origi ... index.html
(The scenarios currently posted on the above page will only work with the DB2000 v6.5.31 database, which means you may encounter some 'challenges' if you try to play them in 3.7. These issue will of course be solved once the updated DB2000 v10.0.0 and the fixed 3.7 exe is released. In the meantime we suggest you install your Harpoon 3.6 and DB2000 v6.5.31, and use those.)
Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
RE: Scenarios
These comments are not encouraging. Imo, new features should not be included in the patch (unless as an option) unless the standard db/scenarios are made compatible at the same time. Not to do this would be a huge mistake. We would have a game that cost $50 and it would be virtually unplayable. I hope the devs are not going to do this.
RE: Scenarios
I doubt scenarios will be all that incompatible. Third party databases will be updated to make them compliant while scenarios will also be updated to make them compatible.
If the original databases are not to be rebuilt then its likely that most will be playable regardless. Those already on HHQ would be updated in any event.
In a way Harpoon has always been like this, a new feature will be added which means a lot of work to amend databases and scenarios. However this keeps the game fresh and many of the added features work well. The added complexity is usually well worth it.
If the original databases are not to be rebuilt then its likely that most will be playable regardless. Those already on HHQ would be updated in any event.
In a way Harpoon has always been like this, a new feature will be added which means a lot of work to amend databases and scenarios. However this keeps the game fresh and many of the added features work well. The added complexity is usually well worth it.
"Alas poor Yorick,I knew him Horatio"
#1 Quote of the Harpoon Community.
RE: Scenarios
Well, I hope this all works out and the devs don't introduce a patch that makes the original db/scenarios incompatible. It's fine to talk about other dbs being updated but I think it's an obligation not to make a patch that makes the game unplayable.
RE: Scenarios
Rich why on earth would they do that buddy? I'm sure the canned scenarios will be just fine. Given the editor has batch rebuilding its not really much of a problem anymore. Would be kinda nice if somebody would confirm that though...Guys?
RE: Scenarios
ORIGINAL: mikmyk
Rich why on earth would they do that buddy?
Well, I've been reading on this forum about new features not being compatible with existing databases. And about how unlikely a db updater/editor will be. And I've been asking about this for a few days and none of the devs have said that the original scenarios will work fine with the new patch. It doesn't seem logical that they will come out with a patch that will make the original db/scenarios not compatible but everything I've read so far points in that direction.
RE: Scenarios
ORIGINAL: VCDH
Greetings from Orlando....time for some clairification here....
It's not so much that we will NOT be releasing the DB editors but rather that the current arrangement (the free use of DB editors by anyone), will most likely be changed to reflect recent events in the Harpoon community. A database will be made available for people to use without fear of copywright violation but the distribution of the DB editors MAY be subject to some form of written argeement regarding the use of the editor. I say 'may' because we are currently considering our options in this regard. We are discussing this internally as well as bringing personell from other companies to provide an outside view of the current situtation.
Okay... is this something the so-called 'experts' have put a lot of thought into? If that's the case them I'm truly worried...
Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
RE: Scenarios
ORIGINAL: VCDH
Greetings from Orlando....time for some clairification here....
It's not so much that we will NOT be releasing the DB editors but rather that the current arrangement (the free use of DB editors by anyone), will most likely be changed to reflect recent events in the Harpoon community. A database will be made available for people to use without fear of copywright violation but the distribution of the DB editors MAY be subject to some form of written argeement regarding the use of the editor. I say 'may' because we are currently considering our options in this regard. We are discussing this internally as well as bringing personell from other companies to provide an outside view of the current situtation.
AGSI recognizes the contributions of ALL existing DB editors and rest assured you will be contacted and kept informed. This process will be totally voluntary.
While some of you may consider this rather draconian we feel it has become necessary given the recent escapades of certain personalities (plural) throughout the harpoon community.
Regarding scenarios, existing scenarios will work providing the DBs that use them are modified to the standards I have descriped in the DB Compliance thread. The DBs do not have to have the ability to utilize all of the new features but there are several changes necessary for what we consider the proper preformance of weapons in game. I have added those comments to the DB Compliance thread as well. DB authors that choose not upgrade their DBs to account for the changes made in 3.7 will be on their own as we won't be able to help them. This gap in capability will only grow larger as we proceed with the many DB changes we have planned for version 3.8. We have a member of our team that is working on the repair of a whole battle set using a derivative of the original DB that was shipped with the game.
And now it's time to pack for my flight. I'll try and check in here while I'm on the way home.
Later
D
This is all very interesting but you never answered the question that I've been asking for several days. However, based on what you said it looks like the game will not work with the new patch until someone comes along and updates the original db. If this is correct, then I think you folks should rethink how you issue the patch. You should not issue a patch that will make the game unplayable until someone fixes the db.
It would be nice if you would just answer my original question. Not with a paragraph but a simple yes or no. Will the patch come with an upgrade to the original db so all the original scenarios work?
RE: Scenarios
Hi All,
So if I have it right...........I have just bought a game, that when patched, will not run the stock scenarios as intended ( I define stock as any scenario that loaded with the install ). Thats quite a problem.
Can you imagine the outcry if developers routinely said " oh, by the way, when you install the patch the stock scenarios won't work properly. I quote "The DBs do not have to have the ability to utilize all of the new features but there are several changes necessary for what we consider the proper preformance of weapons in game." This is sold as a rather accurate game of Naval Warfare but the weapons won't work properly when the patch is installed? Whats the point then?
It seems sensible that stock scenario adjustments be made before releasing the patch. It would be nice to have a comment from Matrix Games on this.
Perhaps I am missing something, and if that is so, a very clear and concise explanation would be helpful.
Regards John
So if I have it right...........I have just bought a game, that when patched, will not run the stock scenarios as intended ( I define stock as any scenario that loaded with the install ). Thats quite a problem.
Can you imagine the outcry if developers routinely said " oh, by the way, when you install the patch the stock scenarios won't work properly. I quote "The DBs do not have to have the ability to utilize all of the new features but there are several changes necessary for what we consider the proper preformance of weapons in game." This is sold as a rather accurate game of Naval Warfare but the weapons won't work properly when the patch is installed? Whats the point then?
It seems sensible that stock scenario adjustments be made before releasing the patch. It would be nice to have a comment from Matrix Games on this.
Perhaps I am missing something, and if that is so, a very clear and concise explanation would be helpful.
Regards John
RE: Scenarios
Not having a DB editor will be a problem as one of the selling points was the DB editor. The one reason I bought the game was do to the DB editor. I personaly enjoy making my own database with personal tweaks and custom platforms and trying them out in the game.
RE: Scenarios
Dale you guys will have rebuilt all the included scenarios by the time the patch flies right?
RE: Scenarios
Hi VCDH,
Thanks for the reply but it does not answer my questions.
Will the stock scenarios play as intended when the patch is released. Or as mikmyk asks and I quote:
"Dale you guys will have rebuilt all the included scenarios by the time the patch flies right"
I believe that these questions can best be answered yes or no. Then an explanation if required.
Regards John
Thanks for the reply but it does not answer my questions.
Will the stock scenarios play as intended when the patch is released. Or as mikmyk asks and I quote:
"Dale you guys will have rebuilt all the included scenarios by the time the patch flies right"
I believe that these questions can best be answered yes or no. Then an explanation if required.
Regards John