Sub/seaplane transport

[qgaliana]

Allies (as usual) early war.

I've been evacuating most of the useless mouths (base forces) from the Phillipines. But ran into some odd problems.

1) My catalinas for about a week were perfectly happy to pick up units out of Bataan and then suddenly stopped. Every attempt to pick up units now results in them standing down when the turn is run. The base is supplied - morale is ok - I have supply. I even tried shortening the range - nothing. Bataan has no port/af damage. The target unit had its HQ changed so its eligible and visible on the pick up menu. So what would stop them? Around the same time same thing happened to my seaplanes flying units out of rangoon.

2) Transport subs - I thought I had figured these out by making sure there is enough load to hold one of a device. I have no problems loading troops. But they all absolutely refuse to load supply from any of the small islands in the phillipines. Orders are given, they start loading, but next turn they're en route empty. For about a week this went fine as well. Supplies at these bases range from 600s to over a thousand and they are all empty of troops.

Any advice?

[TulliusDetritus]

I haven't tried to "pick troops" for ages. It worked very well at the beginning. But then one of the early patches created a bug: when a unit was ordered to "Pick up Troops" they would deliver "supplies" instead. I would assume this routine has still some "bugs" (after all, I always read the TXTs/PDFs of the patches, AND as far as I can remember I never could read that this bug was fixed). Anyway, what about the morale of the unit? The weather?

[VSWG]

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

2) Transport subs - I thought I had figured these out by making sure there is enough load to hold one of a device. I have no problems loading troops. But they all absolutely refuse to load supply from any of the small islands in the phillipines. Orders are given, they start loading, but next turn they're en route empty. For about a week this went fine as well. Supplies at these bases range from 600s to over a thousand and they are all empty of troops.

Any advice?

Did you set your subs to "do not unload"? They probably loaded supplies, and immediately unloaded them again before leaving port.

[stldiver]

VSWG is correct set do not load, and don't set a destination till they load. Another factor may be you are trying to load disabled troops which take longer and more space.

This has been my experiance and I have moved a lot of troops via subs. Also I have tried to load with troops only, if that doesn't work then loading with Troops command seems to pick up, not sure the reasons, but if it doesn't work I give it a day to reset and try again.

[Feinder]

Check what is left of the unit you're trying to pick up. If it's only "big" stuff, like arty guns etc, the Cats don't have the capacity to pick them up. Actually, the sqdn of Coronados make for excellent heavy lifters if you don't have C-47s available.

Also, be advised that the smaller subs

S-## (USN)
P-class (USN), I think, not sure
T-class (RN)
K-class (RDN)
O-class (RDN)

only have a capacity of 18. That means they can pick up infantry squads (10 load capacity), and some of the machine guns. But they cannot pick up support squads (20 load capacity).

-F-

[qgaliana]

I haven't had any problem picking up troops due to load. I usually only collect them once they've been kicked around so just support and avsupport. This was one of my original blunders when I first played, rarely repeated after all the hair I tore outthen.
 
Cats are working again. It may be a morale issue. I'll have to keep a closer eye on it. Sometimes it plummets like crazy from one turn to the next. Looks like my patrol planes hate transport missions.
 
I'll try the 'do not unload' for my subs, but I never used it before. Usually I've had to send a sub to a base on patrol to get it to stay there - Then I switch mission and explicitly set it to return to base while still loading. Usually works, but not always.

[bradfordkay]

I have wondered if this problem isn't linked to the old "unit disappearing while air transported" problem. You might check to see if the unit at the final destination is larger than the one at the original base. If so, is it now the parent unit? If not, you might want to wait a couple of turns for the game to recognize the larger faragment as the parent unit - maybe it will allow you to start picking up the remaining fragments after that.

Or maybe this post is just a cocktail hour flight of illogical imagination...

[goodboyladdie]

I have noticed that recently I get more subs refusing to load when I switch back from patrol to transport. If this happens I find upon checking that they have a no load cost residual fragment of the unit they last carried on board. This residual header is often seen when you move an air unit to another base, but it always dissapears the next turn. I am guessing that if you turn the sub around on the same turn it unloads this residual fragment can sometimes "clog" the load troops routine. If you select unload first it clears it, but you have to hang about for a turn in a very dangerous area.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

I have noticed that recently I get more subs refusing to load when I switch back from patrol to transport. If this happens I find upon checking that they have a no load cost residual fragment of the unit they last carried on board. This residual header is often seen when you move an air unit to another base, but it always dissapears the next turn. I am guessing that if you turn the sub around on the same turn it unloads this residual fragment can sometimes "clog" the load troops routine. If you select unload first it clears it, but you have to hang about for a turn in a very dangerous area.

Easy fix: Form a new TF with the subs you trying to load into. Presto! Some sort of bug on the TF, not the ships.

[qgaliana]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Easy fix: Form a new TF with the subs you trying to load into. Presto! Some sort of bug on the TF, not the ships.

This looks like worth trying. I'm thinking it has something to do with my switching TF missions. Have to wait for the sub fleet to leg it back from Australia and Timor. Scary though - I worry I'll lose evacuees to some weird Philadelphia Experiment incident...

Seaplanes seem iffy - either morale or they abort due to enemy air activity in the area - not sure without running tests.

[qgaliana]

Update on this - seaplanes just seem to suffer from the usual air problems of any other aircraft. Sometimes they just don't feel like it - time for a Mars bar.
 
Subs... [:@]
 
I've tried
1) Load supplies, then set destination - nogo.
2) Set destination, then load supplies - zip.
3) Set destination and load supplies with 'do not unload' - nicht.
4) Load supplies with no destination and 'do not unload' - zilch.
5) Transferring subs out to new sub transport TFs - zero.
6) Disbanding to port and creating brand new subtrans TF - nope.
7) Big ports (30k+ supply) - nada.
8) Little ports (<1k supply) - nuthin.
&nbsp;
Bugger me if they didn't&nbsp;used to load supply earlier in the game. Now they will not load supplies - ever. Anyone else got advice or is it time to head for the support thread and start hoarding saves?
&nbsp;
&nbsp;

[rtrapasso]

2) Transport subs - I thought I had figured these out by making sure there is enough load to hold one of a device. I have no problems loading troops. But they all absolutely refuse to load supply from any of the small islands in the phillipines. Orders are given, they start loading, but next turn they're en route empty. For about a week this went fine as well. Supplies at these bases range from 600s to over a thousand and they are all empty of troops.

This might be a problem with "sticky slots" (according to Mr. Frag, a while back). i've experienced this in every game i've tried, but is apparently not reproducible by Matrix. Some (most?) people don't seem to have a problem with it. i found that after i had moved around 300 tons of supplies the problem developed. i've never been able to resolve the problem*. After a while, it becomes difficult to move troops by sub as well. This last problem can sometimes be remedied by dissolving TFs and reforming them with a new TF number.

Seaplanes picking up troops are problematic. If the "air balance" number gets too low, the pilots won't fly into a place so this could be the problem. If you rest the crews and get their morale up high, they will sometimes fly into a bad "air balance" spot.

*EDIT: i've tried all the suggestions made here and more without success. Only way i've gotten subs to transport supplies again is to start a new game - and they quit again shortly into the game.

[qgaliana]

Sometimes I think I've joined a theosophist study group...
&nbsp;
Sticky slots means what?
&nbsp;
And I don't recall ever hearing or reading anything about air balance in the manual/release notes? Sorry if it's a dumbass newb question...

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

Sometimes I think I've joined a theosophist study group...

Sticky slots means what?

it's a problem with the programming language (C++, iirc). Once a slot (a space devoted to something in the program - in this case a slot devoted to cargo) is used, somehow the space is not freed up once the cargo is unloaded. Somehow, (i am guessing here) there is a total amount of space devoted to cargo for subs, and once you use it, it stays used up even though you've unloaded.

Since some people experience it and some don't, i suspect it is a strange interraction of the WITP program with Windows. Probably something we have on our computers is screwing stuff up via Windows (again - i am guessing). i haven't tried loading WITP onto a computer with nothing else on it - but maybe that would help, but i am not sure i want to devote the effort/resources to that experiment.

[rtrapasso]

And I don't recall ever hearing or reading anything about air balance in the manual/release notes? Sorry if it's a dumbass newb question

If you hover the cursor over a base, you will see a number. If it is positive, that is a positive air balance for the owner of the base - and it means the game thinks you have relative air superiority. THe more positive the number, the more air superiority the game thinks you have... it is LARGELY based on bomber strength that can be projected to the base.

If the number is negative - the base owner is at a disadvantage.

So, if Manilla has an air balance number of -758, transports probably won't fly in without having a VERY good morale.

[qgaliana]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

Sometimes I think I've joined a theosophist study group...

Sticky slots means what?

it's a problem with the programming language (C++, iirc). Once a slot (a space devoted to something in the program - in this case a slot devoted to cargo) is used, somehow the space is not freed up once the cargo is unloaded. Somehow, (i am guessing here) there is a total amount of space devoted to cargo for subs, and once you use it, it stays used up even though you've unloaded.

Since some people experience it and some don't, i suspect it is a strange interraction of the WITP program with Windows. Probably something we have on our computers is screwing stuff up via Windows (again - i am guessing). i haven't tried loading WITP onto a computer with nothing else on it - but maybe that would help, but i am not sure i want to devote the effort/resources to that experiment.

Windows is sometimes too easy to blame. If there was an OS resource not being freed I would expect 1) the performance of everything to slowly degrade 2) it should clear up when I reboot. I'm pretty sure I've done so at least once but I can double check. A relog should be enough but maybe not. Is there an old thread explaining this?

[qgaliana]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

And I don't recall ever hearing or reading anything about air balance in the manual/release notes? Sorry if it's a dumbass newb question

If you hover the cursor over a base, you will see a number. If it is positive, that is a positive air balance for the owner of the base - and it means the game thinks you have relative air superiority. THe more positive the number, the more air superiority the game thinks you have... it is LARGELY based on bomber strength that can be projected to the base.

If the number is negative - the base owner is at a disadvantage.

So, if Manilla has an air balance number of -758, transports probably won't fly in without having a VERY good morale.

Thanks - this is new to me since I started playing again. Was wondering what that meant.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

Sometimes I think I've joined a theosophist study group...

Sticky slots means what?

it's a problem with the programming language (C++, iirc). Once a slot (a space devoted to something in the program - in this case a slot devoted to cargo) is used, somehow the space is not freed up once the cargo is unloaded. Somehow, (i am guessing here) there is a total amount of space devoted to cargo for subs, and once you use it, it stays used up even though you've unloaded.

Since some people experience it and some don't, i suspect it is a strange interraction of the WITP program with Windows. Probably something we have on our computers is screwing stuff up via Windows (again - i am guessing). i haven't tried loading WITP onto a computer with nothing else on it - but maybe that would help, but i am not sure i want to devote the effort/resources to that experiment.

Windows is sometimes too easy to blame. If there was an OS resource not being freed I would expect 1) the performance of everything to slowly degrade 2) it should clear up when I reboot. I'm pretty sure I've done so at least once but I can double check. A relog should be enough but maybe not. Is there an old thread explaining this?

Well, it's been well over a year ago - and the search engine on this forum doesn't work very well. Some of the info might have been in private emails between Mr. Frag and myself.

Reboot does not help. i don't think it is an OS resource not being freed up, it is the OS somehow interacting with the game programming, and it is probably being triggered by a third party program. It is slots in the GAME that are sticky, not slots in Windows.

What causes the stickiness i am not sure, but since only some people have it and most don't, i think it has something to do with the machine they are running on - so it is hardware or a Windows interaction. Since i have had the same problem on radically different platforms (both loaded with similar software) - i think it must be the software. When i sent the saves to Mr. Frag, he couldn't replicate the problem despite running the same version of WITP.

So, if not the platform, and not the game per se, it has to be the operating environment - i.e. Windows and its interactions with other software.

For example - i (and others) had experiences with the game crashing to disk under certain circumstances - and i eventually figured out it was due to a "screen saver" program causing a bizarre interraction. i got rid of that program, and that particular crash went away. If i could figure out what program is interracting with Windows to cause the sticky slot problem (and that is assuming Mr. Frag was correct in his assessment of the problem) then this might be addressed.

[qgaliana]

Nuts... from the few hits I did get searching you made it sound like this happened to regular transports at one time.

Looks like I'm moving on to the support forum. If this spreads beyond subs it will go from moderately annoying to game killing.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: qgaliana

Nuts... from the few hits I did get searching you made it sound like this happened to regular transports at one time.

Looks like I'm moving on to the support forum. If this spreads beyond subs it will go from moderately annoying to game killing.

Well, it isn't affecting my regular transports in any of my games. It is moderately annoying (as you have noted) but not a game killer. If you find a solution, let me know!!