Boxed Copies and More Good News

[Great_Ajax]

Why not just add the Printed Manual as a seperate item to the online catalog?

Trey

[Slick91]

[font="Arial"]This is my 8th Matrix purchase and this time I have to admit; I do feel a bit screwed in purchasing FoF.

First, I noticed the file size after the purchase and now I can’t burn it on to my CD-R (my fault for not paying attention to the file size before I hit the Buy button). And now I read that for $10 more I could have had a cd AND a printed manual.

Oh well, life goes on…

I think I understand why it’s logistically impossible to have extra manuals printed and available to buy in your Merchandise section, or via dedicated email request with a valid serial number, at what ever price + shipping & handling? Why, because I think it comes down to the fact that nobody wants to be bothered coming up with a way to get manuals to those who purchased the game via download. It might actually mean that somebody has to get up, walk across the room, put the manual in a box, and ship it out.

There is no way that Matrix or it’s affiliated partners can loose any money in this. It may cost twice as much than buying the boxed version, but it CAN be made available to people if the sellers want the business.[/font]

[Moltke71]

I really don't understand the hub-bub. It's nice that the physical copy will have a printed manual but I can burn the digital manual to disk and get it printed out at a local copy shop for less than $9.99.

I simply don't understand Xlegion's attitude unless he doesn't have a CD-RW or doesn't live near a copy shop.

[Slick91]

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

I really don't understand the hub-bub. It's nice that the physical copy will have a printed manual but I can burn the digital manual to disk and get it printed out at a local copy shop for less than $9.99.

I simply don't understand Xlegion's attitude unless he doesn't have a CD-RW or doesn't live near a copy shop.

For me, that is my point. I don't have a DVD burner. And, if the manual is printed in color vs black & white, its a HUGE deal to me. The cost of printing that monster manual out in color and a local store would be hundres of dollars (>$1.00 per page). If its printed in B&W, then I won't feel so screwed. You see, its all about me...

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

I really don't understand the hub-bub. It's nice that the physical copy will have a printed manual but I can burn the digital manual to disk and get it printed out at a local copy shop for less than $9.99.

I simply don't understand Xlegion's attitude unless he doesn't have a CD-RW or doesn't live near a copy shop.

Unfortunately such 'local copy shops' seem to be a very localised phenomenon, and as far as I know unique to the US. The one and only occasion I popped into my local photocopy/printing place to ask if they could print a sizeable .pdf manual for what I considered a sensible price I think they thought I was crazy.

[CTB123]

Put me down in in the bumbed department as well.  I don't have a printshop within a hundred miles, and the rest of the deal would have been "nice to have".  It's too late now, but it may have been better to wait for the next release to introduce this.  It's not the end of the world, but I do feel a little put out myself especially as I bought the game so recently. 

As someone suggested, perhaps the manual can be made a catalog item available for purchase.

Just to clarify, is it the entire manual for $10?  The last time I priced getting a manual printed at a Kinko's it was going to cost over $30 to print.  How is the manual bound, and what sort of paper is it printed on?

I am excited about the service going forward, but it was bad timing to release it so soon after FOF's release.

Tony

[Moltke71]

Right. What I do is just print out those parts necessary for play. Printing the whole manual could be $25 in B&W - color usually isn't necessary. I live in a university town so I may be getting better rates. We're flooded with copy shops.

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Bismarck
What I do is just print out those parts necessary for play.

I am tempted to ask quite what is the purpose of the bits, bar the installation instructions and the epilepsy warnings, that aren't necessary to play! [;)]

[ckk]

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Hi Guys

This will be set in stone early next week but I know everyone is waiting for information on our Game On Demand version.

Matrix Games will be now providing printed manuals for its Game On Deman products. This new feature will start with Forge of Freedom and quickly move to all of our games.

Now lets talk about price the new cost.............The new prices for the Game On Demand will be set at $9.99 including printed manual. So I am sorry for delay but I am sure most of you will be happy to now receive a printed manual for Forge of Freedom and soon for your other Matrix products.

If there are any question ask away.

David Heath

This is great!!! As I have learned with Matrix Wait a bit and your dreams will come true[&o][&o][&o]

[freeboy]

hehe looks like I am eating my words Thanks FOR a real great gaem .. and manuel.. wow! can we get it after we alreaady order dr?

[Erik Rutins]

XLegion,

ORIGINAL: XLegion
Well. I am very sorry to hear that because I was loyal to Matrix Games by purchasing their digital download of "Forge of Freedom" I am now to be punished by NOT being able to purchase a printed manual for it. This is outrageous, especially in a game with such a steep learning curve.
This may very well be my last Matrix game.
An unhappy

You know, I understand how it may feel like you're being punished, but that's absolutely wrong. From my side, I feel like we're being punished for doing the best we can to help our customers. Let me review a few key points for those who are upset with us:

1. We did not know, a few days ago, that we would be able to have a printed manual with FoF. We did know that it would happen for 2007, but weren't sure we could do it for the Christmas 2006 season.

2. We heard our customers' requests and worked for months to make printed manuals a possibility. Then, we worked even harder to be able to offer them to you without _any_ increase in price. In fact, we are offering them for a penny less, with nothing else changed in the boxed copy package.

3. When we learned that it would be possible, we decided that we should go ahead with it. Why? Not to punish those who had already bought FoF, but to make it possible for those that had not to get the printed manual. Would you all rather we had waited for another month, until everyone had bought their boxed copy and then announced it? Please re-read point #1 regarding what we knew and when we knew it.

4. We knew some who had already bought the digital download and would have bought the boxed copy instead _if it had a manual_ would be disappointed. We tried to come up with a solution but there's simply no way right now for us to do this with our store software. This and the physical "upgrade" are now our top priorities in terms of store upgrades.

With all this said, we are _still_ listening to our customers and if we can find a way to make the manual available separately, we will.

Please realize you are not being punished. You still have the game you bought at the digital download price, you have everything you paid for. I'm sorry we were not able to offer this earlier or even know that it would be coming, but review the points above and tell me how we could have done this differently?

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

Slick91,

ORIGINAL: Slick91
This is my 8th Matrix purchase and this time I have to admit; I do feel a bit screwed in purchasing FoF.
First, I noticed the file size after the purchase and now I can’t burn it on to my CD-R (my fault for not paying attention to the file size before I hit the Buy button). And now I read that for $10 more I could have had a cd AND a printed manual.

Please see my reply to XLegion as well. Also, on your earlier question, the manual will be printed in black and white, not color. Regarding burning your CD to disk, I believe there are CD-Rs that can fit that much, thought they're not the usual budget kind. If not, we'll make an installer available in two parts that download customers can burn to two CDs.

I think I understand why it’s logistically impossible to have extra manuals printed and available to buy in your Merchandise section, or via dedicated email request with a valid serial number, at what ever price + shipping & handling? Why, because I think it comes down to the fact that nobody wants to be bothered coming up with a way to get manuals to those who purchased the game via download. It might actually mean that somebody has to get up, walk across the room, put the manual in a box, and ship it out.

It's not at all a matter of "being bothered". All of this happens on DR's back-end and until they have the capability to pull out a previous order and use it to create an "add manual" option, there's nothing we can do. Even though we want this and you want it.

As far as trying to come up with a one-time stop gap measure in this case that's strictly handled on our side, we will certainly be discussing that. Our goal is not to tick off our customers - frankly, we thought there would be a LOT more happy than unhappy people over this announcement. The backlash has caught us a bit off guard. If we can find a way to affordably get extra manuals printed and come up with a fulfillment process, we will.

Regards,

- Erik

[Moltke71]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

ORIGINAL: Bismarck
What I do is just print out those parts necessary for play.

I am tempted to ask quite what is the purpose of the bits, bar the installation instructions and the epilepsy warnings, that aren't necessary to play! [;)]

Oh, a little bit of history , explanation of design decisions and insights into features are always nice.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Slick91
For me, that is my point. I don't have a DVD burner. And, if the manual is printed in color vs black & white, its a HUGE deal to me. The cost of printing that monster manual out in color and a local store would be hundres of dollars (>$1.00 per page). If its printed in B&W, then I won't feel so screwed. You see, its all about me...

It's black and white and even with that it took a tremendous amount of haggling for us to add it to the physical copies while reducing the price by a penny.

Regards,

- Erik

[Great_Ajax]

Well I for one would like to thank Matrix Games for its tremendous support. You go to other game company forums and you just will not see this kind of interaction between the company and its customers. I have seen Erik, David, and Marc all over these forums and I think it is amazing. Matrix is becoming my home for gaming lately it seems. I browse the forums everyday and I always have my eye on some product that that is in the works. So I would like to say thanks for the Matrix Team for supporting these smaller companies and developers who put out these great games like Forge of Freedom.

Trey

[LitFuel]

Good Grief!!!...come on guys this is great news...This changes allot for me as I was turned off to Matrix games by having to print my own manual(get's expensive when you use your printer for other things as well). I for one want to thank you guys for stepping up with this.

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

ORIGINAL: Curious

When you say "including printed manual" what else is included? I assume that this "Game On Demand" deal doesn't include a cd since it's only $9.99. What does "Game On Demand" include?

CB

That is on top of the download price:

FOF as an example:

- Digital Download = 49.99$
- Physical Shipment = 59.99$ (Box, CD, Manual)
- Physical Shipment + Digital Download = 59.99$ (Box, CD, Manual and you can download instantly too)

That is excellent news Marc. I'm glad my bitchin finally paid off. (Or got ME what I wanted at least) See, works with Matrixgames just like it does with McDonalds and Walmarts....I'm always right and I always gets what I want....eventually. lol

To me the $10 extra is now worth it for the cd/manual. You're providing me a service I wanted and don't force me to use a sorry PDF (FILE). I'm gonna start tellin everyone now again about Matrixgames. I won the war, but, it was a long fought battle. hehe

[Slick91]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Slick91,

ORIGINAL: Slick91
This is my 8th Matrix purchase and this time I have to admit; I do feel a bit screwed in purchasing FoF.
First, I noticed the file size after the purchase and now I can’t burn it on to my CD-R (my fault for not paying attention to the file size before I hit the Buy button). And now I read that for $10 more I could have had a cd AND a printed manual.

Please see my reply to XLegion as well. Also, on your earlier question, the manual will be printed in black and white, not color. Regarding burning your CD to disk, I believe there are CD-Rs that can fit that much, thought they're not the usual budget kind. If not, we'll make an installer available in two parts that download customers can burn to two CDs.

I think I understand why it’s logistically impossible to have extra manuals printed and available to buy in your Merchandise section, or via dedicated email request with a valid serial number, at what ever price + shipping & handling? Why, because I think it comes down to the fact that nobody wants to be bothered coming up with a way to get manuals to those who purchased the game via download. It might actually mean that somebody has to get up, walk across the room, put the manual in a box, and ship it out.

It's not at all a matter of "being bothered". All of this happens on DR's back-end and until they have the capability to pull out a previous order and use it to create an "add manual" option, there's nothing we can do. Even though we want this and you want it.

As far as trying to come up with a one-time stop gap measure in this case that's strictly handled on our side, we will certainly be discussing that. Our goal is not to tick off our customers - frankly, we thought there would be a LOT more happy than unhappy people over this announcement. The backlash has caught us a bit off guard. If we can find a way to affordably get extra manuals printed and come up with a fulfillment process, we will.

Regards,

- Erik

The fact that the printed manual is in black and white makes me feel better about the situation. Loosing out on a colored manual would really have made me upset. Having a two file download option is a very good idea because you can’t find 800+ meg cds easily.

I’ll take this as a lessoned learned and I hope that Matrix does the same. From now on, I’ll gladly wait until the boxed version is available to see what my options are. AND, I hope that Matrix takes this episode into consideration for future releases.

Just a note on the order screen would be nice. Nowhere on any of your game’s order screens does Matrix note what’s included in the boxed version. If the manual status was unknown, you should have waited for the release. That would have been a better business decision.

This time, this was a bad call on someone’s end in my opinion. “Go ahead and release the download, we’ll end up screwing a few people out of the manual, but it can’t be helped” is poor business when you’re only talking a week’s delay.

I’ve been very satisfied with my Matrix games so far, and I know I’ll enjoy FoF. I’ll in all probability buy other games from Matrix. If you can just add a simple note what’s included in the boxed version I think that would go a long way in shutting up a lot of people.

I thank you for your time. [steps down off of soap box]

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Slick91
I’ll take this as a lessoned learned and I hope that Matrix does the same. From now on, I’ll gladly wait until the boxed version is available to see what my options are. AND, I hope that Matrix takes this episode into consideration for future releases.

I think you can count on that.

Just a note on the order screen would be nice. Nowhere on any of your game’s order screens does Matrix note what’s included in the boxed version. If the manual status was unknown, you should have waited for the release. That would have been a better business decision.
This time, this was a bad call on someone’s end in my opinion. “Go ahead and release the download, we’ll end up screw some people out of the manual, but it can’t be helped” is poor business when you’re only talking a week’s delay.

Well, we didn't know at the time that the release decision was made that the manual would be part of this release, so that type of conversation definitely never happened. It was only after the download had been released that it become possible that it could roll out quickly enough. Before yesterday, it still looked unlikely that it would all work out (given that this boxed copy had to be finished in time for Christmas purchases), but then a few obstacles moved and we finally knew it was going to happen.

Ultimately, the game and support are the same whether you bought the download or the boxed copy. We did also say from the beginning that the boxed copy would be a week or more away and that there would be no upgrade option for those who choose to do the early download (another store limitation we're trying to solve). Since we didn't think at the time that the manual would be in for this boxed version, there was really nothing else that we could say.

I’ve been very satisfied with my Matrix games so far, and I know I’ll enjoy FoF. I’ll in all probability buy other games from Matrix. If you can just add a simple note what’s included in the boxed version I think that would go a long way in shutting up a lot of people.

Thanks, I'm very glad that you've been happy with your purchases and we'll make some adjustments to make sure we keep you all better informed.

Regards,

- Erik

[Marc von Martial]

I’ll take this as a lessoned learned and I hope that Matrix does the same. From now on, I’ll gladly wait until the boxed version is available to see what my options are. AND, I hope that Matrix takes this episode into consideration for future releases.

It is very easy, from now on every new release will have the manual. Old releases will be adjusted over time and seperatly announced.

Just a note on the order screen would be nice. Nowhere on any of your game’s order screens does Matrix note what’s included in the boxed version.

From the frontpage of the store:

"What is a Digital Download?
Our Digital Download service sends you a download link to the master game file once your order is complete. You can use this link to download the game directly to your computer over the internet and start playing right away. The download is available to you for thirty days after your order. No shipping is involved and the game is immediately available for you once the order is complete.

What is a Physical Shipment?
If all you want is a copy of the game without any digital download, select this choice. If you select "Physical Shipment" you will be billed to have the game shipped to you. Our Physical Shipment provides you with a printed CD with your serial number enclosed in a printed DVD case.

The Best of Both Worlds Digital Downloads and Physical Shipment!
When you select this option you can use our digital download option to get the game right away and start playing. Then have a boxed copy of the game shipped to you as a backup for permanent storage. With a backup, you'll be prepared for whatever comes your way-whether it's a system crash, a computer virus damaging your files or the software simply no longer functioning as it should. You will be billed to have the game shipped in a printed DVD box with a printed CD and your serial number."

If the manual status was unknown, you should have waited for the release. That would have been a better business decision.

It is a no win situation for us. Waiting would have ended in other people that just wanted the game to be released marching up our houses and tar and feather us for simply waiting. also, we could not have predicted when the service would eventually start. So we would have had to say people, sorry the game is ready to be sold, but we need to wait an unpredictable time for a new service we will introduce. I'm sure this would have made everybody happy [;)]

We can do what we want , there is always people that feel cheated, ripped of or whatnot. People should be really happy we finally made all this possible, but of course, it is, as always, not good enough.