Defensive Audibles

[Brockleigh]

I've tried calling a couple of defensive audibles.

I guess I've taken a little long to call them, becuase when I do, I cause the offense to incur a Delay Of Game penalty/Time Count Violation. The offense will allow the defense to finish calling the audible, but the play clock continues to run so the offense is at the defense's mercy.

Perhaps the play clock should be frozen while the defensive team is calling an audible, or the offense allowed to snap the ball if the defense can't get it's thumb out.

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]Brockleigh[/font][font="courier new"],[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]My mistake, misunderstood what you posted, it was so crazy situation to happen. Defense causing Offense to get Delay of Game Pentalities, WOW, what a challenge that would be, if it was true.[/font]

[David Winter]

ORIGINAL: Brockleigh

I've tried calling a couple of defensive audibles.

I guess I've taken a little long to call them, becuase when I do, I cause the offense to incur a Delay Of Game penalty/Time Count Violation. The offense will allow the defense to finish calling the audible, but the play clock continues to run so the offense is at the defense's mercy.

Perhaps the play clock should be frozen while the defensive team is calling an audible, or the offense allowed to snap the ball if the defense can't get it's thumb out.

Hmm no, that shouldn't be happening. If you take too long the offense should snap the ball, whether you're ready or not. An audible on the offense that takes too long should be a delay of game, but the defense should simply be caught with its pants down and out of position.

[1GFRover]

[font="times new roman"]DW, [/font]
[font="times new roman"]You're right, the defense should be caught with their pants down.... but I'm experiencing the same fault/bug as Brockleigh.  The first few times I figured it was a glitch, a one off, but it is a repeatable error and so I've just been declining the penalty to be fair to the computer.  (Can one be fair to an inanimate object?)[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]When will the new release, i.e. post 1.3.84, be available for download?[/font]

 

[Brockleigh]

Wait... you can decline a delay of game penalty?

I don't have that option.

[Great White]

ORIGINAL: Brockleigh

Wait... you can decline a delay of game penalty?[X(]

I don't have that option.

[font="Courier New"]At least, in USAn FB you cannot.[/font]

[Marauders]

Wait... you can decline a delay of game penalty?

In American rules, all penalties can be declined other than the first kick out of bounds on an onside kick.

A coach will often have his captain decline a delay of game penalty if the penalty gives a better punting or kicking angle.

[Great White]

[font="Courier New"]Marauders,

No USAn defense can decline delay of games. Watch The NFL and NCAA Div. 1A bowls if you do not believe me, and see they never ever give the defensive captians the choice. If a referee does not give any side's captians the choice, then he or she has broken the cardinal rule of The USAn FootBall Referee.[/font]

[Marauders]

Jerry Markbreit's answers

Have a question about the rules of football? Our expert, former NFL referee Jerry Markbreit, will have the answer.

October 8, 2003, 1:07 PM CDT

Q: An offense benefits by taking a 5-yard delay-of-game penalty to get off a better punt. Can the defense refuse the penalty? Thanks. -- Lowell, Tuscola, Ill.

JM: The defensive team can decline the delay of game penalty in your play. All penalties under NFL rules can be declined, with one exception: The first onside kick attempted carries a five-yard penalty and a replay from the spot of the kick if that kick goes out of bounds. This penalty cannot be declined.

College coaches often decline a delay of game penalty because the hash marks are wider than the goal posts, and five yards on a close up kick gives the kicker a better angle.

[Great White]

[font="Courier New"]Marauders,

NFL's URL to that interview? Give me official league's and association's URL, Rest does not matter.[/font]

[David Winter]

I've changed the code so now it should not be possible to get a delay of game on the defense if the process of calling an audible takes too long. The process of defensive audible calling will simply abort just before the offense is about to snap the ball.

[Brockleigh]

[font="courier new"]Marauders,

No USAn defense can decline delay of games. Watch The NFL and NCAA Div. 1A bowls if you do not believe me, and see they never ever give the defensive captians the choice. If a referee does not give any side's captians the choice, then he or she has broken the cardinal rule of The USAn FootBall Referee.[/font]

GW, quit pretending you are an authority on football, because your attempts at establishing yourself as one wanes with every post. What you are just saying can't happen, happened just yesterday in the Cleveland-Pittsburgh game. Cleveland deliberately ran out the play clock on a fourth down so they could give their give their punter a little more room to land his punt, and the Steelers declined the penalty to keep the Browns with a short field to kick down.

I've seen it myself in College ball too, where a team on a hash-mark close to the goal-line on 4th down will take a delay of game penalty to give the kicker a less acute angle to kick the field goal, and everytime they have, the defense has refused the penalty.

... and Jerry Markbreit was an NFL Referee for what seemed like damn near forever (he wore #9). I remember being a kid and reading his book on football rules Q&A. I'm surprised that someone who knows as much about football as you *Brockleigh's voice dripping with sarcasm* doesn't know who he is.

Marauders, what I was referring to in my post is that I wasn't presented with the option of declining the delay of game penalty. I most certainly would have if the option was given to me.

[Brockleigh]

Thanks, Dave. That solves the problem just fine. =o)

[Great White]

ORIGINAL: Brockleigh

[font="courier new"]Marauders,

No USAn defense can decline delay of games. Watch The NFL and NCAA Div. 1A bowls if you do not believe me, and see they never ever give the defensive captians the choice. If a referee does not give any side's captians the choice, then he or she has broken the cardinal rule of The USAn FootBall Referee.[/font]

GW, quit pretending you are an authority on football, because your attempts at establishing yourself as one wanes with every post. What you are just saying can't happen, happened just yesterday in the Cleveland-Pittsburgh game. Cleveland deliberately ran out the play clock on a fourth down so they could give their give their punter a little more room to land his punt, and the Steelers declined the penalty to keep the Browns with a short field to kick down.

I've seen it myself in College ball too, where a team on a hash-mark close to the goal-line on 4th down will take a delay of game penalty to give the kicker a less acute angle to kick the field goal, and everytime they have, the defense has refused the penalty.

... and Jerry Markbreit was an NFL Referee for what seemed like damn near forever (he wore #9). I remember being a kid and reading his book on football rules Q&A. I'm surprised that someone who knows as much about football as you *Brockleigh's voice dripping with sarcasm* doesn't know who he is.

Marauders, what I was referring to in my post is that I wasn't presented with the option of declining the delay of game penalty. I most certainly would have if the option was given to me.

[font="Courier New"]Talk is cheap, especially when it goes against everything us fans ( I am trying to be any thing special) have witnessed, for years. Put up or shut up.

NFL's URL to that interview? Give me official league's and association's URL, Rest does not matter.[/font]

[Brockleigh]

Put up or shut up? I have done exactly that.

I provided an example from a nationally televised game that was available for all to see that occured only a little more than 24 hours from when I posted it that completely refuted something you directly challenged the entire Maximum Football community to disprove. What do you want me to do, post an MPEG of the play in question?

You haven't seen this penalty declined because it doesn't happen often. In the middle of the field, it doesn't make sense to decline it, but if you notice, everytime the Referree is about to signal the penalty, he will walk towards the defensive captain and look towards him to see if he is going to decline it. He doesn't need to confer with him, as usually it's just a waste of time, but he does need to check to see if he's going to decline the penalty.

Talk is cheap? Exactly, seeing as you have not provided any example or quotation of any league's rules from your statement that:

[font="courier new"]No USAn defense can decline delay of games.[/font]

... despite the fact that you demand the same from everyone else. If I'm going to listen to anyone's words on football who puts something up for the world to see, it's going to be from an NFL Referree who was officiating games before I was born as opposed to someone who's qualifications are questionable at best.

You are wrong. Period. End of story. So please stop posting blanket statements in forums you have no business being in (you have repeatedly stated you don't have the game, so you have no standing to take part in the Public Beta Forum). This particular forum is for the reporting of bugs and known issues regarding gameplay, not for you to chime in from the background regarding secondary issues on a game you don't even own.

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]Brockleigh[/font][font="courier new"],[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]             To cool down a little bite, and to bring some common sense and happens all the time NFL and Div. 1A situation way of see that USAn FB Defenses cannot decline delay of game.[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]You are the defensive coordinator and I am the offensive coordinator, I have 4th down and 4+-yards at your 40-yard line. I decide to take the delay of game, the referee blows the whistle and throws the flag. If you are right, then he walks over to you and asks you if want to accept or decline the delay of game. You know if you accept it, it puts my punter in better position to punt the ball inside the 20 or better yet the 10. Now, going with your and [/font][font="courier new"]Marauders[/font][font="courier new"] claim, then you would be wrong to not decline the delay of game; because it makes it a lot harder. So, you decline the delay of game and my punter kicks it inside the 30.[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]How many times have you guys seen the situation EVER happened? I have NEVER seen that happen. Heck, how many times have you guys seen the telecast show the head referee giving the defense the option? I have NEVER seen that happen.[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]Either every game we have seen, me for decades, the referees have down this rule wrong, without their league/association training it out of them, or the bottom quote is wrong. I do not think that Jerry Markbreit is wrong or does not know the rule, I seriously doubt that ever happen. I just do not trust everything I read, see and hear from the media (from any where) that is not public/non-profit media. I have seen far too many lies, miss-quotes (on purpose or not), small snip-its of entire quotes (done on purpose) and etc, to believe them-especially from On-Line Media-, without proof.[/font]

Jerry Markbreit's answers

Have a question about the rules of football? Our expert, former NFL referee Jerry Markbreit, will have the answer.

October 8, 2003, 1:07 PM CDT

Q: An offense benefits by taking a 5-yard delay-of-game penalty to get off a better punt. Can the defense refuse the penalty? Thanks. -- Lowell, Tuscola, Ill.

JM: The defensive team can decline the delay of game penalty in your play. All penalties under NFL rules can be declined, with one exception: The first onside kick attempted carries a five-yard penalty and a replay from the spot of the kick if that kick goes out of bounds. This penalty cannot be declined.

[Lucas718]

Jerry Markbreit was an NFL referee for many years. Is it not possible that just maybe he knows the rules of the game a little better than you? Just because you personally haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. I never knew it was possible for a team to be awarded a 1-point safety but it happened a few years ago in a college game (I think one of the teams was Texas).

[Brockleigh]

GW...
 
For the third time...
IT HAPPENED THURSDAY!
 
The referee ALWAYS looks over to the defensive captain to see if he will decline the penalty. He doesn't have to walk over and talk to him, but he will ALWAYS look at him to see if he will signal to decline the penalty.
 
Thank you, GW, for successfully hi-jacking this thread.

[Great White]

ORIGINAL: Brockleigh

GW...

For the third time...
IT HAPPENED THURSDAY!

[font="Courier New"]Okay, I did not read that in your posts, until I reread them, sorry. I never saw that game, just figured it would suck so bad.

Do you remember the time in the game, the score and yard line they were punting from? So, if it is replayed by The NFL Network I will watch for it, if I am not working and have control of the clicker.[/font]

The referee ALWAYS looks over to the defensive captain to see if he will decline the penalty. He doesn't have to walk over and talk to him, but he will ALWAYS look at him to see if he will signal to decline the penalty.

[font="Courier New"]True, about that; however, if you look closely enough a huge percentage of the time they do explain it to them. That is what referees are taught to do, unless the players tell they already understand.

Where is the proof? Where is the URLs? It is one thing to think you see something and believe it is true (before the debate and in a couple or even less games) and defend it to the hill. It is a lot respectable, when throwing something out there that people have never seen (or if you right never remember - to be fair), to provide proof.

Lately with all these debates, I am always gone the on-line rule books, NFL's is incomplete joke. When they do not cover it, I write letters. [/font]

Thank you, GW, for successfully hi-jacking this thread.

[font="Courier New"]Go back and read who kept the debate on, I simply stated twice that is USAn FB it was not true.[/b[/font]]

[David Winter]

The bug has been fixed.