Publishing and distribution of BoA

[Hertston]

I'm becoming just a little concerned at the way this game is being sold, and am really posting (humbly) to suggest that the Matrix bods take a careful look at it before repeating it with other games, simply because I think it may generate considerable ill will among loyal Matrix customers.

As most know, BoA is being sold all over the place. I was fortunate to realize that before buying it, and picked up a box copy (with manual) for a tenner.. which seems to be the standard UK price. Online, its being sold all over. The devs themselves were peddling it for less than Matrix when Matrix first released it. Steam carries it (the price has recently been slashed) and so do a couple of other online retailers. Currently, to my knowledge, Matrix is now the most expensive option even after the reduction to $34.99.

I like Matrix to get peoples' money, and over the last few years they have had a fair bit of mine, but sooner or later people are going to get pissed if this is repeated - I certainly would have been had I bought from Matrix only to discover others were selling it online cheaper, and that I could get a box copy from my local store for something like half the price. As we say over here, it just isn't on.

So, guys, next time may I humbly you need to do one of two things. Option one, get an exclusive distribution deal (I do understand that obviously didn't apply in this case). Failing that, option 2 - make sure the contracts whichever developer signs with distributors fix the retail price for all of those distributors. I know there isn't much that can be done regarding boxed retail sales, and most punters look for the best deal anyway, but the current variation in online prices is absurd.

[Jakerson]

I don’t complain because of High Euro price compared to dollar I can get my games from Matrix relative good price compared to price I had to pay from local store that don’t even have as good collection of wargames than Matrix.

Also cheaper digital download also makes it even cheaper.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Online, its being sold all over. The devs themselves were peddling it for less than Matrix when Matrix first released it. Steam carries it (the price has recently been slashed) and so do a couple of other online retailers. Currently, to my knowledge, Matrix is now the most expensive option even after the reduction to $34.99.

I like Matrix to get peoples' money...

I hear your sentiment but in this case Matrix is simply helping a developer out with its retail spread. At the time Matrix became a retailer for the game its intent was to have exactly the same price as Ageod (the sole developer and producer of the game). For some reason Digital River didn't get its act together.

The developers (Ageod) therefore aren't "peddling" anything. It's their game. They put the developmental money into it. For reasons of poor marketing on their part they just didn't make it clear that their game could be downloaded for purchase from their site. Matrix is helping in this regard via their more "popular" site (the proportion of total wargamers who visit Matrix however, is something we'll never know).

Btw if you read Ageod's forums you'll see that apparently Ageod has been retailing via Steam with much regret. They needed the turnover and to a very much reduced margin in return from what I can gather.

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

I hear your sentiment but in this case Matrix is simply helping a developer out with its retail spread. At the time Matrix became a retailer for the game its intent was to have exactly the same price as Ageod (the sole developer and producer of the game). For some reason Digital River didn't get its act together.

Which I have no problem at all with, but it isn't my point. Even if the Matrix and Ageod price had been identical, they still would have been different from Gamersgate, Strategy First or Steam. Currently all of those are selling cheaper than Matrix which must mean one of two things; either Matrix aren't getting any sales or their customers are paying over the odds. I don't consider either to be a particularly desirable state of affairs.

[TheHellPatrol]

[&:]I would imagine that this was a trial run with a more than ready for prime time product eg:it works! Logic suggests that the next AGEOD game would be handled exclusively by Matrix, IIRC AGEOD had a helluva time maintaining bandwidth for all the dd's at BoA's release. That problem will be easily solved with the move to Matrix[8D].

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Even if the Matrix and Ageod price had been identical, they still would have been different from Gamersgate, Strategy First or Steam. Currently all of those are selling cheaper than Matrix which must mean one of two things; either Matrix aren't getting any sales or their customers are paying over the odds. I don't consider either to be a particularly desirable state of affairs.

So what? That's like complaining that EB is selling a game cheaper than Amazon but you're being forced to buy from Amazon! Neither EB nor Amazon made the game. Matrix is just one such retailer in BoA's case. Don't like the price? Don't buy from them!

Me? Had Matrix advertised availability of BoA three weeks ago, I'd have bought from them. Why? I was looking for the game at the time, I didn't know I could download via Ageod and I didn't want to buy via Steam.

What you're suggesting is that Matrix also had better not retail their games via store fronts like EB because EB gets a margin that Matrix should receive and EB can undercut Matrix as they currently do in my woods. [&:]

[Edit by Adam:] LOL! I've never met a guy who likes a monopoly before (other than the guy who runs the monopoly that is) [;)]

[Hertston]

No, it is not like "complaining that EB is selling a game cheaper than Amazon but you're being forced to buy from Amazon"

The point is that most people visit the Matrix store to buy Matrix games, and many buy Matrix games because they are Matrix games. They do not generally visit it to browse for goods they could get from half a dozen other places looking for the cheapest price. If you want a retail analogy try this one; you see what looks like the latest Mercedes for sale at your local dealer for $60,000. You buy one, but in driving home past the local BMW dealer you see the same car, with a different badge, for $50,000. You are not a happy bunny, particularly when you drive past the Audi garage and see the even-better deluxe model (different badge, go-faster stripes and printed manual) for $40,000. If you were buying a second-hand Ford, though, you, would have shopped around.

What you're suggesting is that Matrix also had better not retail their games via store fronts like EB because EB gets a margin that Matrix should receive and EB can undercut Matrix as they currently do in my woods

No, you are mixing up the roles. Matrix are in much the same position there as Ageod are in the case of BoA, and it's not Ageod who have the problem.

Heck, maybe it's just me. If nobody else sees an issue here, maybe there isn't one.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

The point is that most people visit the Matrix store to buy Matrix games, and many buy Matrix games because they are Matrix games.

I thought I sensed this in your original statement earlier. I disagree.

I really see nothing "Matrix" in any of the games they market. I see SSG, 2by3, a whole lot of Talonsoft being rebranded, WCS and plethora of other, disjointed, unrelated independent development houses.

I personally buy games from Matrix based on a trust they have won from me in their Digital Download service. Giving them my credit card details in other words, is not like giving to the Russian Mafia[:D] That's a big thing. The next decision making point is the subject of the game, next, the reputation of the independent developer.

Unfortunately "Matrix" for me also means rulebooks with numerous typos. As someone else posted, for them, it means complex game systems with guaranteed serious v1.0 bugs.

A "Matrix Game" would be one coordinated by a Matrix leader, taking the developers, programmers, graphics artists, authors and other skills holders from across the totality of the development houses "under its marketing umbrella" and using this pool of resources to create a PC wargame.

Instead, there's PC World in Flames coming in 2008 - by "Australian Design Group", revised Close Combat - by someone else, revised Horse and Musket - by someone further etc... This isn't Avalon Hill with a cupboard full of stalwart names and talents taking on design projects, controlling their development and refining them for public consumption.

Right now, Matrix is a well-intentioned clearance house - its mission statement imo, to simply be "the crossroads through which all PC wargame sales must pass" [:D]

Hats off to them! But until otherwise, there will be nothing like a "Matrix Game" just as there's nothing like a "Barnes and Noble Book"... or an HPS game for that matter...

I think you may be a little too nostalgic there Herston. The PC game distributors we love a very small operations despite the grandiose press releases we see. I do wish that Shrapnel and Mark Walker would stop imitating Matrix in this way btw.

[Titanwarrior89]

Some places are not cheaper- Hasting store in the town were I live wants 40.00 bucks.[X(]

[Philthib]

The matter is not as easy to master as it seems.

1 - Prices in France and Sweden (GamersGate) are subjected to VAT, a tax between 19.6 and 25%, which YOU American customers do not pay, hence making your price cheaper when you purchase from us...

2 - For technical reasons, Gamersgate cannot apply exchange rate correctly, so their USD price is the same as their Euro price...which is ridiculous and unfavourable to us, European customers. They have been advised to change this, but their technical matters are not likely to be solved before some weeks.

3 - Strategy First does not sell download version. They have a retail version that they are fully allowed to sell at discounted prices, this is their right by contract (a mechanism called Price protection). We can't help on that matter. Feel free to buy in a store if you find their version cheaper. This is beyond our control, and does not please us as well, as we are making less royalties on discounted sales [:@]

4 - Matrix is clearly and honestly following the price levels agreed by contract. They are not trying to "cheat" anyone.

5 - We are stuck in this poor situation because of the failing of both the European Central Bank and the Federal Reserve: the euro is MUCH too strong vs the dollar (30% now, whereas it was less than 20% when we signed our deals with Strategy First or Gamersgate). We can't reduce our prices in euro just too meet some too low prices of the American market...

6 - We asked most distributors to have the same listed price (i.e. the one Matrix applies). When you see so many discrepancies, blame it on tax (VAT in Europe) and abysmal US/Euro exchange rates.

7 - Most of this is beyond our control. I would say buy the game where it's cheapest if you're only looking for the price. Or buy it from the guys who are well-known for service and customers follow-up [;)]

This said, Happy New Year

Philippe Thibaut
AGEOD

[MarkShot]

Whenever a product is available via multiple channels in multiple formats, then there are always price variations. There is nothing suprising or insidious here. I didn't notice anything in the Matrix copy indicating that BoA is exclusively available from Matrix or available at the lowest price worldwide from Matrix. Or that former Matrix customers are contractually obligated to buy all their games from Matrix.

On the other hand, there are reasons one might pay extra to buy it from Matrix or not:

(1) Matrix's ecommerce has been fairly reliable. Gamergate has been plagued with problems. Also, I am not sure about BoA, but I believe for Gamersgate, you must connect to an authorization server to install their games. So, if seven years from now, you still want to play game XYZ you bought at Gamesgate and Paradox is long since extinct, then you are out of luck. With Matrix or AGEOD direct, as long as you have saved your serial number, you should be fine even if Matrix and AGEOD are long gone.

(2) Since Matrix seems to each year be increasing its portfolio of in-house projects, joint projects, and publication of independent developers, you may feel that a premium is justified if it means that it helps to keep a major pillar of your hobby solvent and operating. Perhaps you are worried about the day coming when the only games you can buy will be from EA and UBI and allow you to choose between playing instant action arcade mode and hardcore arcade mode.

(3) You may want to purchase in USD and not have to worry about exchange rates. Also, in the early days of buying direct from AGEOD, you had to feel comfortable doing your transaction in French with a French shopping cart. (I am not sure how it is today, but that's how it was when I bought my copy.)

On the other hand, you may want to shop around and see who has it for the best price or even buy on the secondary market like Ebay (provided that it is not pirated). Of course, on the secondary market, Matrix, SFI, Paradox, AGEOD gets nothing. But still any growth of the player community is good in the long run for AGEOD and future product sales.

As long as you buy a legal copy of the game, I don't think there is any right or wrong way to buy it or sell it.

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Philthib

4 - Matrix is clearly and honestly following the price levels agreed by contract. They are not trying to "cheat" anyone.

I know they aren't; I'm not suggesting anybody is. Nor have I suggested anything 'insidious'. For the record, I really enjoy this game and would like to see both Ageod and Matrix make oodles of money from it.

The reason I posted was that I can forsee a situation where this sort of arrangement may cause ill-will between Matrix and it's customers. While there is indeed nothing

indicating that BoA is exclusively available from Matrix or available at the lowest price worldwide from Matrix

there is also nothing suggesting that BoA is different in some respect from virtually all of the other titles available at the store (the only exceptions being the Slitherine games) in that downloads are only available from Matrix - including HttR and CotA. For example, I took advantage of the recent offer to buy WitP, but didn't think it necessary to peruse several other sites in search of a cheaper price first. I accept it would be unreasonable to ask Matrix to add something to the effect that "other download sources are available - some of them cheaper", hence my suggestion that the retail price be fixed across all distributors. However, if that can't be done, and as I seem to be the only one who percieves a problem, I'll shut up now! Thank you for your replies.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

But until otherwise, there will be nothing like a "Matrix Game" just as there's nothing like a "Barnes and Noble Book"... or an HPS game for that matter...

Hey, I have to add this not to get a last word in at all but to correct something I wrote above.

There are of course things called "HPS" games! What was I thinking? Scott Hamilton and Greg Smith the founders of HPS are indeed game designers in their own right, with their own titles starting the HPS company and fuelling its progression.

Happy New Year and a happy 2007 gaming all (I can feel a very active marketing schedule from Matrix in the forthcoming year) [:)]

Adam.

[Erik Rutins]

Adam,

While you're right in many cases where development teams are able to handle the entire design and completion of the game from start to finish, you might be surprised just how much involvement we have, from the design stage on up in many other "Matrix" titles.

Regards,

- Erik

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Adam,

While you're right in many cases where development teams are able to handle the entire design and completion of the game from start to finish, you might be surprised just how much involvement we have, from the design stage on up in many other "Matrix" titles.

True, I would say there is only few titles in our arsenal were we do/did not have any involvement.