Tired of T.O.

[Brockleigh]

I'm glad this forum is up because it finally gives me a chance to vent about Terrell Owens.

Now anyone that's read my posts going back a ways knows that my NFL team is the San Francisco 49ers, so that said, I have no great love for Owens. I cheered the day the 49ers traded him (in fact, I got a second chance to cheer when his trade to Baltimore was voided).

But I cannot seriously understand what the love affair was with him when he moved to Philadelphia. Everyone that watched any of the pre-game shows that year would hear about how Owens was the most dominant receiver in the NFL, and as a 49ers fan who watched him play I wondered how anyone who actually watched him play the game could see him for more than what he actually was, an above average receiver who lacked the focus and the drive to elevate himself any farther than that. His stats in 2004 with the Eagles were 77 catches for 1200 yards and 14 TD's. That was granted, in 14 games as he broke his foot, but those numbers are basically average for a #1 receiver of a team at that time. Maybe a little above average (which is exactly what he is).

Just as often with Philly as he's doing in Dallas this year, he drop more than his share of passes. In fact he dropped Todd Pinkston's and Freddie Mitchell's and Greg Lewis's share of passes, too. Either the play isn't `highlight reel` enough for him , or he's already thinking about which touchdown celebration to do before he's even looked the ball into his hands, but he's so much into himself and his own shameless self-promotion instead of the game. Which is why it would not surprise me at all if Dallas waives him on March 1.

The only reason we're looking at every mistake he makes so critically right now is because everyone and their brother knows this is his last chance as a #1 receiver, and we're seeing if he'll play his way out of the line-up. He was this exact same receiver in San Francisco and Philadelphia, no better, no worse, only this time, we're expecting him to fail.

Receivers like Rice, Largent, Monk, Tim Brown, Irvin, and Alworth, they were all made great by their abilities. Their desire was to be the best receiver they could be, and their greatness followed.

Owens desire is to be a hero. His desire for greatness is only fueled by his ambition, not supported by his abilities.

[Tbird]

That was a good game to watch

[firebirds]

Brockleigh, I couldn't agree with you more. When my Cowboys signed him I was shocked to say the least. I said to some fellow football friends that as a Cowboy fan I would rather miss the playoffs without him than make the playoffs with him. Being a Cowboy fan I must dislike the Eagles, along with every other team in the NFCE, but I would like to see them good deep into the playoffs to spite TO.

I was on pins and needles as the game wore on and actually was ready to turn it off when Seattle scored their last points. But I stayed with it knowing we had already run one back and really only needed a decient run back plus two or three first downs to get into fieldgoal range to win it. Things were looking good until the bobbled snap. Watched the replay then changed the channel.

I think JJ has too much invested in him to let him go on March 1st. The cap hit would definately hurt us. But I think that if the Tuna does come back for the final year of his contract he might be dealing with TO differently than he did this year. It was so surprising to me the restraint he showed dealing with the media regarding the circus that TO brings with him everywhere he has been.

[Brockleigh]

firebirds,

With a $25 Million over three years contract ($8.3 Million/year) the cap hit would be huge if they released him, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there a certain period of time in the off-season where if you release a guy, his cap number doesn't count against your cap, or at least it's reduced.

But outsides of the cap hit, I don't see a reason to keep him around. He's the classic malcontent: If they win, it's all him. If they lose, it ain't his fault, the QB should've thrown him better passes. There's a term in sports management: Addition by Subtraction.

The Cowboys will be a better team without Owens. Terry Glenn has already proved he's twice the receiver T.O. ever was or will be. Just have Romo throw to him all the time, release T.O., and get rid of the consant distraction. Having someone like Owens on that team will only destroy a young quarterback's development, and Romo still needs to develop.

[firebirds]

I don't think there is time frame where you can cut a player without some cap affect. I do know there is a time frame where the cap hit is reduced but I don't remember when it is and exactly what the % reduction rules are but I believe it affects all years of his contract. I think the only way to get rid of him without a hit is to trade him, and I'm sure there is another team desperate or stupid enough to make the deal. I agree with everything you said, addition by subtraction would be a great avenue to take but I don't know what the Cowboys free agent situation is. I don't think Bledsoe will be back, assuming he would be a free agent plus I don't think he sees himself as a back up for anybody. Romo definately has potential and anything to help him move quicker in the positive direction would be a plus. Living here in Indy we have really been hindered a bit by the cap. I wished Peyton would have done the Aikman thing by restructering his contract to free up some $$ that the Colts could use for defense. But I think that since Troy did it so many times they have changed the rules to make it much more difficult to get a loan from Peter to pay Paul, if you know what I mean.

[garysorrell]

T.O. is the prime example of the pampered, selfish, self absorbed athlete of today. He obviously doesnt represent all Pro athletes, but he does represent a big chunk of them.

What I am always curious about, is WHO is exactly emailing, writing, and calling the major(and not so major)media outlets and telling them we want 'MORE' coverage of these guys?

I used to live and die by pro football, I followed any and every league, from the NFL, USFL, WLAF, NFLE, and all the variations of Arena football and the XFL. But, now, I rarely watch a NFL game, and refuse to watch the pre and post game shows. It's less about covering the game, and more about who is or isnt in jail, suspended, or on steroids.

Im not saying 'back in my day' things were peachy. Steve Courson and Peter Gent exposed a lot of what was wrong in the 70s, but the coverage of the sport was different.
I would love to see, for one whole season, nobody put a mic in T.Os face. His head would explode. Which would be a bonus

[firebirds]

I used to watch a ton of basketball and fell out of love for many of the same reasons. The players needing to get their ESPN VCT (valuable camera time) really took so much away from the game as it was supposed to be played plus the refs turning a blind eye to fouls, traveling, palming, etc.

TO is the latest car crash to hit the NFL, you know it's going to be an ugly scene but you just have to look. Another thing, IMHO, that is hurting professional sports is that the coach doesn't seem to have the authority he once did and players have much more power than they used to and/or should have. The NFLPA righted the wrong of the players getting paid fairly compared to what the owners were making. Also in doing so they achieved so much more that they have actually put the players in control of the league. Every time a team does just about anything there is a grievence (sp) filed. It has gotten out of control.

[DONMVP]

T.O. Is a joke , people say he has the numbers but , if you put most receivers in his spot , they could put those numbers up , but with less baggadge .There should be a clause in the cap rules for malcontents and such. If there a detriment like he is the cap should`nt get hit or have it spread out better .. Ipity the next coach of Raiders . He`s got 2 jack asses to sweep out .Porter and Moss, they have some rebuilding to do ,don`t need any more distractions to hinder it. Ithink cap hit on both our not to bad . I`d rather see , a so so player at both positions ..

[firebirds]

Because of those players named we appreciate the quiet workmanship and professionalism of Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne all the more here in Indy. And both of them are going to the Pro Bowl this year [:D]

[Marauders]

If a player is released or traded before the end of his contract, his signing bonus, in this case a considerable amount, will accelerate under the cap, whereas it would have been prorated each year under his contract.

[firebirds]

Thank you Marauders for the info. I knew there was some hit but wasn't sure exactly what it was, and to be honest I was getting a bit tired of digging for specific football info - if you know what I mean [8|]

[Marauders]

I was getting a bit tired of digging for specific football info - if you know what I mean.

 
Yeah, sometimes we have to state the rules in five different ways to get it across that we know what we are talking about, but not yet in this thread.
 

I do know there is a time frame where the cap hit is reduced but I don't remember when it is ....

 
You are correct that there is a date in which the cap hit will apply to the current season rather than the next.  This can affect when teams will cut players.
 

[Great White]

(in fact, I got a second chance to cheer when his trade to Baltimore was voided).

[font="courier new"]But, if I remember right, The SF 49ers would have gotten more from The Baltimore voided trade than what they got from The Philadelphia trade. Why would you not be a little angry with him, instead of glad to have a second chance to cheer his trade?[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]I cannot stand FB Players (Like WRs T.O. and Randy Moss) and cheer FB players (like WRs Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne) for either their negative or positive actions in the media and/or on the field as much as the next guy (if not more, then the next guy); however, at least T.O. (unlike Randy Moss) plays his heart out and has the stats to back it up. You compare T.O.'s last few seasons stats (averages by games, given his missed games) and he ranks in the top 10.[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]Now, for all those WR Randy Moss supporters, I understand Randy Moss has no NFL QB and a Franchise (stupidly owned and managed by Al Davis) in disarray (which Moss was part of the problem); but it is unbelievable how little effort he gives and that also as affect on any sports' players performance.[/font]

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]firebirds[/font][font="courier new"],[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]                It is funny how before I ever read your post, I also came up with the exact same pair of WRs.[/font]

[Brockleigh]

[font="courier new"]at least T.O. (unlike Randy Moss) plays his heart out and has the stats to back it up.[/font]

 
GW,
 
I don't dispute that he has some good stats. So did Moss his first year or two in the league.
 
But the number of drops and the fact that he'd rather blame his QB than help to make his offense better tell me he doesn't play his heart out, or at least doesn't put the game first.
 
As long is it appears that he can't maintain his focus and concentration on the field, yet keeps running his yap like he's the best receiver ever to put on pads, then I won't cut him any slack.
 
If he would just shut up when a microphone is put in his face, I'd forgive the odd drop. But everytime he keeps a press conference going for as long as he possibly can, I'm gonna keep riding him for as long as I possibly can.
 
Y'know, he's reminding me of another Dallas player who's mouth far outstripped his skills, and firebirds will probably remember him: Thomas "Hollywood" Henderson.

[Great White]

ORIGINAL: Brockleigh

[font="courier new"]at least T.O. (unlike Randy Moss) plays his heart out and has the stats to back it up.[/font]

GW,

I don't dispute that he has some good stats. So did Moss his first year or two in the league.

[font="Courier New"]But T.O. stats have never dropped?[/font]

But the number of drops and the fact that he'd rather blame his QB than help to make his offense better tell me he doesn't play his heart out, or at least doesn't put the game first.

As long is it appears that he can't maintain his focus and concentration on the field, yet keeps running his yap like he's the best receiver ever to put on pads, then I won't cut him any slack.

[font="Courier New"]No, I do really hate his in media thrashing of his QB and Franchises and on the sidelines over thrashing of his QB and Franchises; however, you are seeing things if you do not see him giving all he's got to win, on the field. Most importantly, thou, I guess you missed this during N.O. Saints Monday Night Game, when the announcing crew discussed how he was playing with a serverly damaged finger. The finger is damaged to the point that he decided to continue playing over season ending surgery; thus T.O. will never be able to use that finger again. If that was me, even with how much I am addicted (serious) to USAn FB, I would have never done that. I have always valued my body over my addiction to USAn FB.[/font]

If he would just shut up when a microphone is put in his face, I'd forgive the odd drop. But everytime he keeps a press conference going for as long as he possibly can, I'm gonna keep riding him for as long as I possibly can.

[font="Courier New"]I am not saying you should not; but be fair to the man.[/font]

Y'know, he's reminding me of another Dallas player who's mouth far outstripped his skills, and firebirds will probably remember him: Thomas "Hollywood" Henderson.

[font="Courier New"]I have already told you guys before (not a biggie) about how bad my long term and short term memories are (dianosted as part of my LD); of course, I am lucky to have what I have. I am only 34-years old, thus I believe he was finishing his career, when I started watching FB. So, unforunately, no I cannot remember him, beyond watching NFL replays of his games (SB games).[/font]

[Great White]

ORIGINAL: Marauders

I was getting a bit tired of digging for specific football info - if you know what I mean.

Yeah, sometimes we have to state the rules in five different ways to get it across that we know what we are talking about, but not yet in this thread.

I do know there is a time frame where the cap hit is reduced but I don't remember when it is ....

You are correct that there is a date in which the cap hit will apply to the current season rather than the next.  This can affect when teams will cut players.

[font="Courier New"]It is not like you are posting things (as basic as) like the deminsions of FB fields, LOL[:D]. I mean some of the things you guys post at times, I doubt anyone outside of yourselves and FB leagues'/associations' referee committees even know, either way. Plus, just like I have been proven wrong, with my disagreements (most strongle disagree) some on here have been wrong in their postings. If someone was 100% (given that most leagues and associations rules committees do not respond) on here, then I would be more inclined to take that members word for it.[/font]

[Marauders]

I cannot stand FB Players (Like WRs T.O. and Randy Moss) and cheer FB players (like WRs Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne) for either their negative or positive actions in the media and/or on the field as much as the next guy (if not more, then the next guy); however, at least T.O. (unlike Randy Moss) plays his heart out and has the stats to back it up. You compare T.O.'s last few seasons stats (averages by games, given his missed games) and he ranks in the top 10.

Randy Moss has the best first five years stats for a receiver in the NFL ever. At least he did after his first five years. Moss is more of a team player than ESPN or Fox would ever give him credit for. He did get sloppy on plays, but he has played injured from his rookie year.

Now, for all those WR Randy Moss supporters, I understand Randy Moss has no NFL QB and a Franchise (stupidly owned and managed by Al Davis) in disarray (which Moss was part of the problem); but it is unbelievable how little effort he gives and that also as affect on any sports' players performance.

It is believable considering he has been injured in Oakland and the coaching there in the last two seasons is awful. In 2005, the head coach would take Moss out on goal line plays. Taking out a player that holds NFL TD receiving records is not generally a good idea.

Randy Moss does do some pretty stupid stuff, and he says things that he may be better off not saying, but he is not the egomaniac that Owens is.

[Great White]

[font="courier new"]Marauders[/font][font="courier new"],[/font]
[font="courier new"][/font] 
[font="courier new"]              I disagree; no use in going around and around with opinions. All I will say is you are welcome to all those Mosses (forcing a Franchise to sign a contract that guarranteed to get him the ball 1/3 of the plays) and T.O.s out there.[/font]

[Brockleigh]

Wow, looks like I touched a real nerve with this topic, eh?