Battle for New Jersey (like who would want to do that)

Post descriptions of your brilliant successes and unfortunate demises.

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KDonovan
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RE: CV battle at Wake

Post by KDonovan »

wow.....

thank god at the last minute i decided to move my TF's one hex short of Wake, instead of keeping them in the Wake hex itself, as i don't believe i would have had the neccessary surface forces to take on the japanese surface fleet
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Mike Solli
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RE: CV battle at Wake

Post by Mike Solli »

Now that would have been interesting.
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RUPD3658
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RE: CV battle at Wake

Post by RUPD3658 »

ORIGINAL: KDonovan

wow.....

thank god at the last minute i decided to move my TF's one hex short of Wake, instead of keeping them in the Wake hex itself, as i don't believe i would have had the neccessary surface forces to take on the japanese surface fleet

Go ahead...rub it in[:D]

In reality my hand was forced. I figured that in another 2-3 months there was no way I could take on the Allied CVs and survive, not that I did all that well now. The main factor was the BBs. I did not think they were ever going to get another shot at surface combat due to the Allied CVs and LBA. It would be a shame to have them sunk in port so I figured even if I lost most of them in a surface battle it would be worth it if they took several ships with them. Every day for the last week there has been a bombardment TF at Wake so I figured that the odds were good. In addition, the weather was thunderstorms so I thought that maybe the CV battle could be avoided and the surface battle could still happen. Setting the TFs to bombardment was insurance that they would do something if the surface battle was small. I also thought that since the Soryu got torpedoed (but Kenny did not know it only suffered 9 sys damage) that he might figure that the KB was going to abort the mission and he too would pull back from Wake.

The only real success for the turn was that 100AV worth of naval guard unit was delivered to Wake via fast transport.

If I had gone last turn I would have decimated a cruiser TF. If Kenny had sent in his surface units there would have been the mother of all surface battles as all of my BBs and 90% of my CA/CLs would have been there.

Day late and a dollar short.

I had concidered just withdrawing to Marcus and not contesting the landings any more. My AC were killing his subs left and right and he needed to score close to 18VP a day plus 1/3 of what I scored for the next 120 days to avoid me holding 3:1. This would have been the conservative move. The reason I did not take it was that the desctruction of his surface units of better yet a fully laden transport TF would have left Wake isolated and until he could recover the 100,000+ troops there he would be unable to make any major advances.

I guess I took the hail mary for the endzone rather than going for the first down.

Now the question is, have I done enough damage that Kenny will not be able to overcome the VP gap in time eventhough he can advance at will?

Current score: 48,297 to 15,608

At this level he would have to score 95 points per day every day for the next 28 months to get to 2:1 before 1-1-46.

With this in mind maybe I should have played conservativly for the 3:1 before taking such a risk. [:-]


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke
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KDonovan
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RE: CV battle at Wake

Post by KDonovan »

Now that would have been interesting.


you're right. I ran down the forces, had the battle occured....

Japan - 12 BB's, 11 CA's, 16 CL's - in 3 TF's
Allied - 7 BB's, 13 CA's, 7 CL's - in 3 TF's

in terms of BB's, i would've had the advantage in the number of modern BB's...but japan almost had 2:1 in numbers

in terms of CA's, i would've had the advantage in number of gun tubes, but japan had the advantage in torpedo tubes

in terms of CL's, i would've had the advantage in modern CL's with more gun tubes and better armor, but japan had the advantage in torpedo tubes


if tom wants, i'll resend the turn, with the TF's sent to their original (Wake) destinations just to see if the japanese could've fought there way to the carriers. Of course whatever the outcome, i won't count towards our game...but should be fun to watch
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Mike Solli
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RE: CV battle at Wake

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: KDonovan
if tom wants, i'll resend the turn, with the TF's sent to their original (Wake) destinations just to see if the japanese could've fought there way to the carriers. Of course whatever the outcome, i won't count towards our game...but should be fun to watch

I'm all for that. I suspect the net loss would be to the Japanese, but it would be neat to see.

RUPD, don't forget that he'll start to reap boatloads of VPs when he starts the strategic bombardment of the Home Islands. Once he's in range, he can get a couple hundred VPs a day, while destroying your economy.
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KDonovan
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Battle of Jutland....err Wake

Post by KDonovan »

In our hypothetical turn, here's how the forces stand up.

Deposition of Forces
Japanese BB's
2 BB - Yamato Class
2 BB - Nagato Class
3 BB - Kirishima Class
2 BB - Ise Class
2 BB - Fuso Class
Total Weapons
- Primary Armament (106 guns)
- 18 x 18.1in guns
- 16 x 16.1in guns
- 72 x 14in guns
- Secondary Armament (258 guns)
- 24 x 6.1in guns
- 70 x 6in guns
- 68 x 5.5in guns
- 96 x 5in guns
Allied BB's
1 BB - Indiana Class
1 BB - South Dakato Class
2 BB - North Carolina Class
1 BB - King George V Class
2 BB - Nevada Class
Total Weapons
- Primary Armament (66 guns)
- 36 x 16in guns
- 30 x 14in guns
- Secondary Armament (108 guns)
- 108 x 5in guns
Japanese CA's
2 CA - Tone Class
3 CA - Mogami Class
2 CA - Nachi Class
2 CA - Takao Class
3 CA - Furutaka Class
Total Weapons
- Primary Armament (134 guns)
- 134 x 8in guns
- Secondary Armament (84 guns)
- 72 x 5in guns
- 12 x 4.7in guns
- Torpedo Tubes - 132
Allied CA's
1 CA - Baltimore Class
1 CA - Witchita Class
3 CA - New Orleans Class
1 CA - Portland Class
4 CA - Northampton Class
1 CA - London Class
1 CA - Kent Class
Total Weapons
- Primary Armament (112 guns)
- 112 x 8in guns
- Secondary Armament (104 guns)
- 92 x 5in guns
- 12 x 4in guns
- Torpedo Tubes - 8
Japanese CL's
1 CL - Oyodo Class
2 CL - Agano Class
2 CL - Sendai Class
4 CL - Nagara Class
3 CL - Kuma Class
1 CL - Kitakami Class
1 CL - Tatsuta Class
1 CL - Yubari Class
Total Weapons
- Primary Armament (89 guns)
- 6 x 6.1in guns
- 12 x 6in guns
- 71 x 5.5in guns
- Secondary Armament (38 guns)
- 10 x 5in guns
- 8 x 3.9in guns
- 20 x 3in guns
- Torpedo Tubes - 130
Allied CL's
2 CL Cleveland Class
1 CL Perth Class
1 CL - Fiji Class
2 CL - Omaha Class
1 CL - De Ruyter Class
Total Weapons
- Primary Armament (71 guns)
- 64 x 6in guns
- 7 x 5.9in guns
- Secondary Armament (52 guns)
- 24 x 5in guns
- 16 x 4in guns
- 12 x 3in guns
- Torpedo Tubes - 14


it appears after further reflection, that i would've gotten killed, considering i don't lead in any one important catagory.
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Mike Solli
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RE: Battle of Jutland....err Wake

Post by Mike Solli »

That would still be a lot of fun to watch.  How many DDs in the bunch?
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KDonovan
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RE: Battle of Jutland....err Wake

Post by KDonovan »

That would still be a lot of fun to watch. How many DDs in the bunch?


Japanese and Allies have roughly the same amount of DD's in each of the 3 TF's. The Allies also have 3 ASW TF's totaling 22 DD's, but at the same time Tom said he sent in a Fast transport squadron (probably DD's and CL's) so DD wise it probably balances out.

I sent Tom the turn, to run the surface engagement....so grab some popcorn and watch the allied fleet get nailed.
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KDonovan
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RE: CV battle at Wake

Post by KDonovan »

The problem was that even though it was set to do not react, the TF based around the Soryu reacted and broke formation.


looks like we both have problems with that. I also set my CV-TF's to "do not react" and even staffed them with non-aggressive admirals (less than 55 aggression rating), and they still reacted leaving my surface ships exposed to Betty's. I'll join you in a joint shooting of our insubordinate captains [:D]
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Nemo121
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RE: CV battle at Wake

Post by Nemo121 »

Cool, time to get the popcorn for sure. Ok, it is also time to take bets.
 
Japan - 12 BB's, 11 CA's, 16 CL's - in 3 TF's
Allied - 7 BB's, 13 CA's, 7 CL's - in 3 TF's
 
I bet 3 older IJN BBs sunk, 4 CAs, 7 CLs and an indeterminate number of DDs as we don't have the numbers for them.
Allies: 4-5 BBs sunk, 6 or 7 CAs and 4 CLs.
 
The real trick, of course, is that not all of these will be sunk overnight. Many of them will only be sunk if the IJN and USN CVs continue to intervene. IF this naval battle had occurred and the IJN had more Zeroes, Kates etc on nearby islands to fly onto the CVs this would prove a golden opportunity to crush the Americans. If the USN CV fleet had remained to cover the ships the IJN could have taken a second shot at the CVs with replenished strike groups. If the USN CVs had abandoned the slower surface ships then the IJN could have had a field day.
 
It is a real pity that the clash of the battlelines didn't occur.
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Well, that's that settled then.
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RUPD3658
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Battle of Wake (Alternate Universe)

Post by RUPD3658 »

Ran the turn Kenny sent me and I am not sure if I made out any better. The points came out in favor of Kenny. The real turn saw him score 1028 to my 521 (+507 Allied) and this one saw him score 1958 to my 1218 (+740 Allied) I have sent the turn back without orders so he can inspect his ships. Maybe he will want to go with the bloodier turn. End result:

Japan:
Sunk:

3 CV
1 CVL
1 CVE
1 CA
4 CL
1 DD

Will sink next turn:

1 CVL
1CVE
3 BB including Musashi
1 CS
2 DD

Allied:

Sunk:
1 CVL
2 CVE
2 BB including POW
4 CA
2 CL
2 DD

Will sink:
?

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/31/43

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 75,57

Japanese Ships
DD Murakumo
DD Samidare

Allied Ships
SS Barb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 64,99

Japanese Ships
SS I-6

Allied Ships
CA Australia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 82,62

Japanese Ships
DD Yamakaze
DD Harusame
DD Kiyonami

Allied Ships
SS Cod, hits 6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 78,59

Japanese Ships
DD Hatakaze
DD Amatsukaze
DD Oyashio
DD Arashio
DD Arashi
DD Hayashio
DD Hatsuharu
DD Hagikaze
CA Kinugasa

Allied Ships
SS Barb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 95
Ki-49 Helen x 65

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
262 casualties reported

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 115

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Samo , at 62,88


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 3
Liberator VI x 126
P-40B Tomahawk x 20


Allied aircraft losses
Liberator VI: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 19
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 110

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 82,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 8
A6M5 Zeke x 40
A6M3a Zero x 155

Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 9 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 84,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 3
D3A Val x 119
D4Y Judy x 27
A6M3a Zero x 20
B5N Kate x 116
B6N Jill x 18

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 63
F6F Hellcat x 21
Corsair IV x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed
D3A Val: 70 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 7 destroyed, 3 damaged
A6M3a Zero: 16 destroyed
B5N Kate: 68 destroyed
B6N Jill: 3 destroyed, 10 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
Corsair IV: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Chenango, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Hermes, Bomb hits 1
CVL Belleau Wood, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Suwannee, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Sangamon
CLAA Juneau

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 84,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 3
A6M3a Zero x 15
B5N Kate x 41

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 29
F6F Hellcat x 9
Corsair IV x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 9 destroyed
B5N Kate: 16 destroyed, 9 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 5 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Sangamon, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CVL Hermes, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Belleau Wood, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Suwannee, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CLAA Juneau, Torpedo hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
F-5A Lightning x 2


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 216th USA Coast AA Regiment, at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 9

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 19
F6F Hellcat x 122
Corsair IV x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 3 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 26th USA FA Brigade, at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 3

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 19
F6F Hellcat x 122
Corsair IV x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 3 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 40th USA/C Division, at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
A6M3a Zero x 9

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 19
F6F Hellcat x 122
Corsair IV x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 9 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 7 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 27th USA Division, at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 49
A6M3a Zero x 39

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 19
F6F Hellcat x 122
Corsair IV x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 49 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 37 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 3 destroyed
F6F Hellcat: 9 destroyed, 6 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 82,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 8
A6M5 Zeke x 36
A6M3a Zero x 131

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 26
F6F Hellcat x 92
SBD Dauntless x 109
Barracuda x 13
TBF Avenger x 38
TBM Avenger x 52

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 8 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 22 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 94 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 18 destroyed
F6F Hellcat: 52 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 13 damaged
Barracuda: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
TBF Avenger: 2 destroyed, 6 damaged
TBM Avenger: 6 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Ryujo, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CVE Kaiyo, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 82,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 7
A6M3a Zero x 18

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 12
SBD Dauntless x 4
TBM Avenger x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 12 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 82,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 6
A6M3a Zero x 12

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 13
SBD Dauntless x 24
TBM Avenger x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 10 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 1 destroyed
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Ryujo, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 82,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 5
A6M3a Zero x 7

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 4
SBD Dauntless x 27
TBM Avenger x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 damaged
TBM Avenger: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Ryujo, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 82,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 10
A6M3a Zero x 13

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4
SBD Dauntless x 31
TBM Avenger x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Ryujo, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 84,62

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
Corsair IV x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair IV: 1 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 84,62

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 11

Allied aircraft
Corsair IV x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 9 damaged


Allied Ships
CVE Sangamon, on fire
CLAA San Diego, Torpedo hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Wake Island, at 82,63 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

8 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
CL Detroit
CA Baltimore, Shell hits 3
CA Wichita
BB Prince of Wales
BB Massachusetts
BB South Dakota
BB Washington
BB North Carolina

Japanese ground losses:
2118 casualties reported
Guns lost 11

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 27
Port hits 3
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Wake Island

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 22687 troops, 117 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 677

Defending force 111591 troops, 695 guns, 263 vehicles, Assault Value = 2385



Allied ground losses:
127 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 12442 troops, 403 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1932

Defending force 313237 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 10572



Allied ground losses:
419 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Wake Island

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4119 troops, 147 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2385

Defending force 29838 troops, 118 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 677


Japanese ground losses:
134 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 09/01/43


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 82,62

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku
DD Hatsuzuki
DD Susuzuki
DD Teruzuki
DD Akizuki

Allied Ships
SS Cod

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Hakaze
DD Minekaze
DD Oite
DD Satsuki

Allied Ships
SS Dragonet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei, Shell hits 16, on fire
CA Kako, Shell hits 3
CL Oyodo, Shell hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
CL Agano
CL Noshiro, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Sendai
CL Jintsu, Shell hits 2
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 3
CL Natori, Shell hits 19, on fire
CL Yura, Shell hits 40, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Kinu, Shell hits 10
CL Kuma, Shell hits 8
CL Tama, Shell hits 3
CL Kiso, Shell hits 6
CL Kitakami, Shell hits 1, on fire
CL Tatsuta
CL Yubari, Shell hits 1
DD Onami, Shell hits 2
DD Hibiki
DD Amagiri
DD Mutsuki
DD Tomozuru, Shell hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
CA Portland, Shell hits 2
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 1
CA San Francisco
CA Vincennes, Shell hits 6
CA Devonshire, Torpedo hits 1
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 2
CL Perth, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Mauritius, Shell hits 4
CL Mobile, Shell hits 19, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
DD Cony
DD Dashiell, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Eaton, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Halford, Shell hits 1
DD Harrison, Shell hits 1, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E7K2 Alf: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei, Shell hits 4, on fire
CA Kako, Shell hits 5, on fire
CL Oyodo, Shell hits 14, and is sunk
CL Agano, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
CL Noshiro, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
CL Sendai, Shell hits 1
CL Jintsu, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 7, on fire
CL Natori, Shell hits 17, on fire, heavy damage
CL Yura, Shell hits 12, on fire, heavy damage
CL Kinu, Shell hits 7
CL Kuma
CL Tama, Shell hits 3
CL Kiso, Shell hits 5
CL Kitakami, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Tatsuta
CL Yubari
DD Onami, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Hibiki
DD Amagiri
DD Mutsuki
DD Tomozuru, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CA Portland, Shell hits 2
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Vincennes
CA Devonshire, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 4
CL Perth, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CL Mauritius, Shell hits 2
CL Mobile, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Cony
DD Dashiell, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Eaton, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Halford, Shell hits 1
DD Harrison, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Wake Island at 82,63


Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 1 destroyed
Walrus: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 2
BB Musashi, Shell hits 2, on fire
BB Fuso, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Ise, Shell hits 1, on fire
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 10, on fire
CA Haguro, Shell hits 20
CA Nachi, Shell hits 3
CA Mogami, Shell hits 13
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA Kumano, Shell hits 1
CA Aoba, Shell hits 4
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 1
DD Niizuki
DD Akigumo
DD Makinami
DD Tamanami
DD Ikazuchi

Allied Ships
BB North Carolina, Shell hits 4, on fire
BB Washington, Shell hits 27, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
BB South Dakota, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB Massachusetts, Shell hits 1
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 21, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CA Wichita, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
CA Baltimore, Torpedo hits 1
CL Detroit, Shell hits 3
DD Conway, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD John Rodgers
DD Spence, Shell hits 13, on fire
DD Taylor, Shell hits 1, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu
BB Musashi, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
BB Fuso, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Ise, Shell hits 10, on fire
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 6, on fire
CA Haguro, Shell hits 5, on fire
CA Nachi, Shell hits 6, on fire
CA Mogami
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
CA Kumano, Shell hits 8
CA Aoba, Shell hits 5
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 3
DD Niizuki, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Akigumo, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
DD Makinami, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Tamanami, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Ikazuchi, Shell hits 3, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Nevada, Shell hits 1
BB Oklahoma
CA Northampton
CA Houston, Shell hits 1
CA Chester
CA Louisville, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Pensacola
CL De Ruyter
CL Richmond, Shell hits 1
CL Raleigh, Shell hits 1
DD Philip, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Pringle, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Sigsbee, Shell hits 1
DD Gwin, Shell hits 1
DD Grayson
DD Sampson, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Benham
DD Ellet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Wake Island at 82,63


Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 4 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 2
BB Haruna, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Kirishima
BB Nagato, Shell hits 1
BB Yamato
BB Yamashiro
CA Tone, Shell hits 1
CA Chikuma, Shell hits 2
CA Atago
CA Chokai
DD Satsuki
DD Oite
DD Minekaze, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Hakaze, Shell hits 5
DD Tsuga, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Hasu

Allied Ships
BB Nevada, Shell hits 6, on fire
BB Oklahoma, Shell hits 3, on fire
CA Northampton, Shell hits 25, and is sunk
CA Houston, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Chester, Shell hits 21, and is sunk
CA Louisville, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
CA Pensacola, Shell hits 3
CL De Ruyter, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Richmond, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Raleigh, Shell hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
DD Philip, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Pringle, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Sigsbee, Shell hits 4
DD Gwin
DD Grayson, Shell hits 1
DD Sampson, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Benham, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ellet, Shell hits 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Wake Island at 82,63


Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 4 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 1
BB Haruna, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Kirishima
BB Nagato, Shell hits 1
BB Yamato, Shell hits 2
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 1
CA Tone
CA Chikuma, Shell hits 1
CA Atago
CA Chokai
DD Satsuki, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Oite
DD Minekaze, on fire, heavy damage
DD Hakaze
DD Tsuga, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Hasu

Allied Ships
CA Portland, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Vincennes, Shell hits 2
CA Devonshire, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 1, on fire
CL Mauritius
CL Mobile, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Cony
DD Dashiell, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Eaton, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Halford
DD Harrison, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Hakaze
DD Minekaze, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Dragonet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Wake Island, at 82,63

Allied Ships
CL Raleigh, on fire, heavy damage
CL Richmond, on fire, heavy damage
CL De Ruyter, on fire
CA Pensacola
CA Houston, on fire
BB Oklahoma, on fire
BB Nevada, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
320 casualties reported
Guns lost 7

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 9
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 82,62

Japanese Ships
CS Mizuho, Torpedo hits 1
DD Ariake
DD Umikaze
DD Fujinami
DD Suzunami
DD Takanami

Allied Ships
SS Cod, hits 4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 98
Ki-49 Helen x 76

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
105 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 95

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Samo , at 62,88


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 9
Liberator VI x 131
P-40B Tomahawk x 32


Allied aircraft losses
Liberator VI: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
48 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 150

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 15
A6M3a Zero x 36

Allied aircraft
F-5A Lightning x 2

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 26th USA FA Brigade, at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 14
F6F Hellcat x 95
Corsair IV x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 40th USA/C Division, at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 15

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 14
F6F Hellcat x 95
Corsair IV x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 15 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 40th USA/A Division, at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 3

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 13
F6F Hellcat x 95
Corsair IV x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 3 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 27th USA Division, at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 55
A6M3a Zero x 27

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 13
F6F Hellcat x 95
Corsair IV x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 53 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 24 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 9 destroyed, 2 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 79,61

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 1
A6M5 Zeke x 11
A6M3a Zero x 18

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 12
SBD Dauntless x 10
TBM Avenger x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 1 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 4 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged
TBM Avenger: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Shoho
CVL Zuiho, Torpedo hits 1
CVE Chuyo

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 79,61

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 7
A6M3a Zero x 14

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16
F6F Hellcat x 57
SBD Dauntless x 107
Barracuda x 12
TBF Avenger x 37
TBM Avenger x 35

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 7 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 14 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F6F Hellcat: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged
TBF Avenger: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged
TBM Avenger: 10 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Ryuho, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Shinyo
CV Taiho, Bomb hits 7, on fire
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 79,61


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 6
SBD Dauntless x 28
TBM Avenger x 6


Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
TBM Avenger: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVE Shinyo, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CV Taiho, Bomb hits 1, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 79,61


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 12
SBD Dauntless x 42
TBM Avenger x 37


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVE Shinyo, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Taiho, Bomb hits 4, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 84,62

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Oklahoma

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 83,63

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Dewey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63


Allied aircraft
F-5A Lightning x 2


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 86,61

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 4 damaged

Allied Ships
CA San Francisco, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 85,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 3
A6M3a Zero x 15
B5N Kate x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 4 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Suwannee, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Belleau Wood, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 85,62

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Suwannee, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 85,62

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVL Belleau Wood, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 85,62

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

No Japanese losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 82,62

Japanese Ships
CS Mizuho, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ariake
DD Umikaze
DD Fujinami
DD Suzunami
DD Takanami

Allied Ships
SS Cod, hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 79,61

Japanese Ships
DD Yayoi

Allied Ships
SS Dorado

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese Ships
SS RO-33, hits 4, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Ralph Talbot
DD Mugford
DD Blue
DD Schroeder
DD Guest
DD Daly
CL St. Louis
CVL Cabot
CVL Independence
CV Bunker Hill
CV Hornet


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Wake Island

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 22170 troops, 121 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 805

Defending force 112142 troops, 704 guns, 266 vehicles, Assault Value = 2406



Allied ground losses:
70 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 12412 troops, 399 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1935

Defending force 312883 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 10573



Allied ground losses:
267 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Wake Island

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4174 troops, 148 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2406

Defending force 34137 troops, 144 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 805


Japanese ground losses:
81 casualties reported
Guns lost 3



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Nemo121
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RE: Battle of Wake (Alternate Universe)

Post by Nemo121 »

Hmm, does your opponent have anything to say about his surface combat TFs?  I've read a lot of Tom Hunter's stuff re: SC TF composition and in following much of what he pointed to ( and doing a bit of experimenting of my own)  I've got a lot of bang out of fairly small SC TFs. Your opponent's SC TFs run almost entirely contrary what Hunter's findings and my own experiments would suggest are succesful. Why did you both go with such huge TFs which would ensure that a lot of your major ships in each TF would sit out some of the battles? Were you looking for redundancy in 2nd and 3rd rounds?
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RE: Battle of Wake (Alternate Universe)

Post by KDonovan »

Status: online Hmm, does your opponent have anything to say about his surface combat TFs? I've read a lot of Tom Hunter's stuff re: SC TF composition and in following much of what he pointed to ( and doing a bit of experimenting of my own) I've got a lot of bang out of fairly small SC TFs. Your opponent's SC TFs run almost entirely contrary what Hunter's findings and my own experiments would suggest are succesful. Why did you both go with such huge TFs which would ensure that a lot of your major ships in each TF would sit out some of the battles? Were you looking for redundancy in 2nd and 3rd rounds?


I agree, i usually keep my surface TF's at 12 or less, as i seem to recall thats the max number of ships that can fire during combat. As you can see, my Fast Battleship TF had 12 ships in it, as that unit was to provide the surface defense for my CV's. My other two TF's, the CA TF and the Old BB TF were greater than 12 ships as those TF's were meant purely for Bombardment, not meant to engage surface vessels.
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RE: Battle of Wake (Alternate Universe)

Post by KDonovan »

Breaking down the battle, here's the cruiser battle.....
Night Time Surface Combat, near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei, Shell hits 16, on fire
CA Kako, Shell hits 3
CL Oyodo, Shell hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
CL Agano
CL Noshiro, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Sendai
CL Jintsu, Shell hits 2
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 3
CL Natori, Shell hits 19, on fire
CL Yura, Shell hits 40, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Kinu, Shell hits 10
CL Kuma, Shell hits 8
CL Tama, Shell hits 3
CL Kiso, Shell hits 6
CL Kitakami, Shell hits 1, on fire
CL Tatsuta
CL Yubari, Shell hits 1
DD Onami, Shell hits 2
DD Hibiki
DD Amagiri
DD Mutsuki
DD Tomozuru, Shell hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
CA Portland, Shell hits 2
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 1
CA San Francisco
CA Vincennes, Shell hits 6
CA Devonshire, Torpedo hits 1
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 2
CL Perth, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Mauritius, Shell hits 4
CL Mobile, Shell hits 19, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
DD Cony
DD Dashiell, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Eaton, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Halford, Shell hits 1
DD Harrison, Shell hits 1, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E7K2 Alf: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei, Shell hits 4, on fire
CA Kako, Shell hits 5, on fire
CL Oyodo, Shell hits 14, and is sunk
CL Agano, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
CL Noshiro, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
CL Sendai, Shell hits 1
CL Jintsu, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 7, on fire
CL Natori, Shell hits 17, on fire, heavy damage
CL Yura, Shell hits 12, on fire, heavy damage
CL Kinu, Shell hits 7
CL Kuma
CL Tama, Shell hits 3
CL Kiso, Shell hits 5
CL Kitakami, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Tatsuta
CL Yubari
DD Onami, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Hibiki
DD Amagiri
DD Mutsuki
DD Tomozuru, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CA Portland, Shell hits 2
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Vincennes
CA Devonshire, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 4
CL Perth, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CL Mauritius, Shell hits 2
CL Mobile, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Cony
DD Dashiell, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Eaton, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Halford, Shell hits 1
DD Harrison, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage


despite the presence of a BB, lots more torps and 2:3 superiority in ships, the Japanese didn't do as well as well as they should have....

Japan - 5 CL's, 1 DD's sunk/heavy damage
Allies - 2 CA, 2 CL's, 2 DD's sunk/heavy damage

....i would still call it a minor japanese victory
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RE: Battle of Wake (Alternate Universe)

Post by RUPD3658 »

I was going for 8 BB/CA TFs with 4 DDs as escorts.

It is odd the the worst round of comabt for me was against the Nevada and Oklahoma, two of the old BBs vs the Musashi

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu
BB Musashi, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
BB Fuso, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Ise, Shell hits 10, on fire
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 6, on fire
CA Haguro, Shell hits 5, on fire
CA Nachi, Shell hits 6, on fire
CA Mogami
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
CA Kumano, Shell hits 8
CA Aoba, Shell hits 5
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 3
DD Niizuki, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Akigumo, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
DD Makinami, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Tamanami, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Ikazuchi, Shell hits 3, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Nevada, Shell hits 1
BB Oklahoma
CA Northampton
CA Houston, Shell hits 1
CA Chester
CA Louisville, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Pensacola
CL De Ruyter
CL Richmond, Shell hits 1
CL Raleigh, Shell hits 1
DD Philip, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Pringle, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Sigsbee, Shell hits 1
DD Gwin, Shell hits 1
DD Grayson
DD Sampson, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Benham
DD Ellet
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RE: Battle of Wake (Alternate Universe)

Post by Nemo121 »

Any chance of someone sending the replay my way? I'd love to see how it actually went down?
 
FWIW I have found that putting torpedo CLs with BBs is almost always a loser. I tend to go for TFs with 4 BB/CAs and 4 DD or 2 CLs and 6 DDs ( if I'm expecting to fight just enemy DDs or I've decided it is going to be a night surface action and thus getting in close with Long Lances ( helps if you have a VERY aggressive Admiral in charge) is going to be my tactic for the battle). As the Japanese though you really want BBs or CAs along no matter what you are fighting as your CLs are almost worthless ( until you get 3.9 inch-armed ones at least. Their volume of fire is terrifying.).
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RE: Battle of Wake (Alternate Universe)

Post by KDonovan »

here's the my Fast BB's, versus Japanese best BB TF....
Night Time Surface Combat, near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 2
BB Musashi, Shell hits 2, on fire
BB Fuso, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Ise, Shell hits 1, on fire
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 10, on fire
CA Haguro, Shell hits 20
CA Nachi, Shell hits 3
CA Mogami, Shell hits 13
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA Kumano, Shell hits 1
CA Aoba, Shell hits 4
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 1
DD Niizuki
DD Akigumo
DD Makinami
DD Tamanami
DD Ikazuchi

Allied Ships
BB North Carolina, Shell hits 4, on fire
BB Washington, Shell hits 27, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
BB South Dakota, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB Massachusetts, Shell hits 1
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 21, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CA Wichita, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
CA Baltimore, Torpedo hits 1
CL Detroit, Shell hits 3
DD Conway, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD John Rodgers
DD Spence, Shell hits 13, on fire
DD Taylor, Shell hits 1, on fire


here my ships got spanked. This goes agaisnt the notion that "smaller the TF's do better than larger TF's" that Nemo mentioned. As you can see pretty much all my ships were engaged in the battle (12 of them), while the only 12 japaense ships engaging the allies were all CA's/BB's.

Japanese - 1 BB, 1 CA sunk/heavy damage
Allies - 3 BB, 1 DD sunk/heavy damage

now here's a different allied task force with the same japanese battle line....
Night Time Surface Combat, near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu
BB Musashi, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
BB Fuso, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Ise, Shell hits 10, on fire
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 6, on fire
CA Haguro, Shell hits 5, on fire
CA Nachi, Shell hits 6, on fire
CA Mogami
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
CA Kumano, Shell hits 8
CA Aoba, Shell hits 5
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 3
DD Niizuki, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Akigumo, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
DD Makinami, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Tamanami, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Ikazuchi, Shell hits 3, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Nevada, Shell hits 1
BB Oklahoma
CA Northampton
CA Houston, Shell hits 1
CA Chester
CA Louisville, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Pensacola
CL De Ruyter
CL Richmond, Shell hits 1
CL Raleigh, Shell hits 1
DD Philip, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Pringle, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Sigsbee, Shell hits 1
DD Gwin, Shell hits 1
DD Grayson
DD Sampson, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Benham
DD Ellet


This TF did much better than my Fast BB TF, despite being much weaker force. The result was an additional japanese 1 BB, 2 DD sunk/damage for 2 allied DDs sunk/heavy damage.

So my 2 TF's ended up with the following score against the Musashi Battleline...

Japanese - 2 BB, 1 CA, 2 DD sunk/heavy damage
Allied - 3 BB, 3 DD sunk/heavy damage

would call it a draw, since the Musashi is such a massive ship. Now the question is, would my BB's, CA's have done better in one TF, or split up as they were?
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RE: Battle of Wake (Alternate Universe)

Post by KDonovan »

Lastly here's the final japanese BB TF, taking on the already exhausted allied CA-TF...
Night Time Surface Combat, near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 1
BB Haruna, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Kirishima
BB Nagato, Shell hits 1
BB Yamato, Shell hits 2
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 1
CA Tone
CA Chikuma, Shell hits 1
CA Atago
CA Chokai
DD Satsuki, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Oite
DD Minekaze, on fire, heavy damage
DD Hakaze
DD Tsuga, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Hasu

Allied Ships
CA Portland, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Vincennes, Shell hits 2
CA Devonshire, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 1, on fire
CL Mauritius
CL Mobile, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Cony
DD Dashiell, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Eaton, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Halford
DD Harrison, on fire, heavy damage


as you can see, it was no contest for the exhausted CA's against japanese BB's. The BB Haruna and japanese DD are only heavily damaged due to previous sub attacks. Not counted the damaged/sunk ships from the Allied CA's previous engagement here's what additional losses occured

Japanese - none
Allied - 1 CA, 1 DD sunk/heavy damage
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RE: Battle of Wake (Alternate Universe)

Post by Nemo121 »

You know, it'd be a great opportunity to run some tests by varying TF composition.
 
As the Japanese I would suggest the following composition
4 BB, 2 CA and 2 DDs x 3 TF,
5 CA + 1 gun CL (not kitakami or Oi) + 2 DD
 
4to CL CL + 4 to 6 DD in your other TFs.
 
 
Make sure your BB TFs are the lowest-numbered as they fight first, your CA TF next-lowest and your CL-led DD TFs next.
 
 
The concept behind this arrangement ( which I've tested and works quite well indeed) is that your BBs trade the bows as they are the most survivable vs enemy BBs. Your lowest-numbered TF should be of ALL your best BBs ( 2 Yamato class and 2 modern 16 inchers) and so on in decreasing quality.
 
The first TF damages the enemy sufficiently that the enemy offensive capability is so compromised that they cannot take advantage of your lower capability 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc TFs and therefore these TFs add their gun damage.
 
By the time the enemy TFs are being engaged by your Cl-led DD TF most of the very light ships should be stripped away and whatever remains should be badly damaged... perfect targets for Long Lances.
 
I would be very surprised if you didn't find that the results from the setup I outline above are very different than what occurred in-game. For reasons of testing the Allied TF setup should not, of course, change.
 
 
No pressure etc. I just think it would be interesting to run the above and see. I've had good results with it in testing and in-game after coming up with the underlying hypotheses while reading some of Hunters stuff.
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RE: Battle of Wake (Alternate Universe)

Post by KDonovan »

Since this excercise was about Surface engagements and not about the CV fights here was the final outcome of those surface engagements.....

Japanese - 11 ships sunk/heavy damage
2 BB
1 CA
5 CL
3 DD

Allied - 13 ships sunk/heavy damage
3 BB
3 CA
2 CL
5 DD


based on that i would call it a minor or moderate japanese victory
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