Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865

[krb3]

Is there a demo for this game? Sure like to see it before paying the money for it and the not like it.

For those who have purchased it how is it? Can you play the game at the battlefield level?

How's graphics?

Thanks krb3

[Gil R.]

There's no demo, but if you read the AAR's that jchastain and I have pinned to the top of the main forum, as well as Hard Sarge's for detailed combat in the AAR's sub-forum, plus any other AAR's, you'll definitely get a feel for the game. (As you may have read on the forum, we're getting close to releasing a major patch which will add tons of improvements to the game, but the AAR's are still a pretty good introduction.)

[Ian R]

Gil,

Would you please assume I'm a grumbling old grognard who got to play SPI's War Between The States a couple of times 30 years ago, and have never had the space or time to set it up since despite wanting to, and despite having a punched copy and a mint one (in case I lost anything) in storage.

Could you also assume that I really like WitP because it means I can in effect play the SPI game of the same name (which I got to play once about 30 years ago, etc) against the computer without buying a shed or doubling the size of the garage.

Finally could you assume I would really like to have FoF if it is going to give me a game on the same scale and involving the same decisions as the SPI boardgame.

I have read the descriptions, I find the idea of hexmap battles very attractive (especially if they are an "operational" rather than really a tactical level), The game seems to have the political economic management stuff that I'll expect, but area movement makes me uneasy, and makes me think this will be very different to a hex map game even though its IGO-HUGO top down.

So in the absence of a demo can I ask you or any list members some questions:

How big are the areas, how many are there, or more particularly how many in the campaigning zone between the Shenandoah, Richmond, the Potomac, and Delaware; how many areas are there west of Richmond on the peninsula out to Norfolk; how many areas abutt the old Miss between the gulf coast and Cairo? I've looked at the photos in the AAR and there seems to be one area between Richmond and Washington, but its unclear.

Should I be concerned about all the talk of Gatling Guns in the brigade attachment topic on the forum (this seems a bit non historical). Should I be concerened about the talk of researching things like hasty entrenchment and building city improvements depicted with 3d graphic shots making this sound a bit like age of empires? Is that part of the game moe important than the military simulation part?

If the game is like that, and it looks to me like it is, then its not my cup of tea but if I'm wrong please tell me.

[Twotribes]

Between Richmond and DC you have 4 specific zones, One is to the west but to reach richmond you will probably have to take it. One is directly ajacent the Potomoc River ( which has DC in it) one is not attached to the Potomoc but again it provides a path to Richmond.

From Richmond to Norfolk is I believe 3 zones, one of which is Norfolks zone.

From Cairo South, there is 2 rivers with their own zones, there is one Zone directly below Cairo in Kentucky, there are abreast at least 2 zones between the Mississippi and Mobile. They are from north to south ( x the two) 5 zones to the bottom of the Mississippi. As I recall. Mississippi has 5 to 7 zones ( provinces) not counting river provinces. Lower Louisiana has 2 or 3 land zones and 2 river zones ( with cities in them)
Tennessee has 2 land zones that abutt the mississippi ones ( it has a bit more than 2 total, those are just the land ones in the west in the area you asked about.

The Union starts with 19 states and Missouri elects a Governor on the second turn, so 20 states as I recall, there is Kentucky and all the Southern States as well as 3 provinces of Indian Territory. Not a lot of Texas is on the map but there are 2 cities as several land provinces between them and Louisiana and Arkansas.

West Virginia consists of 4 land Provinces and a river Province with wheeling in it. It is never a state in game though, always considered part of Virginia. Maryland consists of 2 Provinces, Delaware one province. Cant remember if there is a river between them or not, dont pay much attention to that spot.

Hope that helps.

[Twotribes]

Rapid fire weapons is a tech that can be researched. It has 2 levels. It is only good at one hex range but can do a lot of damamge if the unit that has it has ammunition and is capable of firing, not broken ect. The brigade attachment is expensive to buy assuming you have researched it.

As I recall you have to research something before rapid fire guns? And what appears on your list is random to some degree. So you may not see it when ever you have a chance to research what ever tech tree it is in.

[Gil R.]

Ian R,

Rapidfire guns were invented during the Civil War, so it is not unrealistic for them to appear in the game as a tech upgrade. They're rare, though, since not only does one have to get lucky enough to receive that upgrade, but one then has to spend the money/resources to equip one's units with it. Observation balloons are similar: their use during the war was limited, but they were indeed used, so they're in the game as a potential upgrade.

If economic development isn't your thing you can toggle that off and not have to worry about it. Same goes for a host of other options, so that if you want a game that is more heavily weighted towards warfare you can achieve that. (Personally, I'd recommend that you not toggle off research, since getting new weaponry, improving your armies' logistics, teaching your troops new maneuvers, etc. add a lot of flavor and replayability, and engaging in research is simply a matter of occasionally spending some money/resources to build a new research institution. It takes little time to do that.)

[General Quarters]

Ah, the good old SPI games! Didn't I love them!

But some good old board games did have area movement and they work well for the strategic-operational level. In my own view, it would have been better if Virginia had had a few more areas. That would permit the degree of maneuverability that the real war presented.

Someone posted a downloadable map, so you can see for yourself, but I do not recall where that post is or how it was titled.

The battles, by the way, are hex based, and should warm the heart of an old SPI-er.

I was skeptical before I read the AAR of Gil and Jchastain posted above. I read through Gil's and it gives you a very good sense of gameplay and strategic-operational factors and decisions.

In my own view, this game is, not only the best computer strategic ACW game, it is the only one worth playing. It is ideal for PBEM, and two players could by agreement adjust anything not sufficiently historical. (I should also mention that, in response to players' requests, there will be a more precisely historical scenario on the patch expected to be released in a couple of weeks.)

Hope these comments are helpful to you.

[Ian R]

Thanks for the quick responses.

Its a YMMV thing I suppose but I played civilisation till 4am (OK all night) plenty of times, and age of empires, and would want to concentrate on the military game so I'm glad you can opt out of a lot of the economic stuff. Besides, my 8 year old would beat me with all that stuff on.

The number of areas described sounds like you can try and create some turning movements which on my reading were very much the flavour of the day in the 1860s, rather than just butting heads. So I'm feeling tempted.

One last question - if you turn off the economic development stuff and research, can you still keep the railroad buidling functions on as an isolated thing - one aspect of development which is pretty crucial to this era of warfare.

[Bearcat2]

As someone who played WBtS, WitP, even the old AH CivilWar; on the whole they did a credible job of a Civil War simulation, some of the things they did make sense, like giving rivers their own area, having to conquer the forts in an area to gain control, initiative movement by armies, some are obvious gameplay balancing- resource management, confederate navy, foreign intervention.  Some do not make any sense, but are likely to be changed in an update-armies, corps, divisions without leaders, because you haven't built enough academies, some are just puzzling-Governor requests for staff positions, but no governor appointed Generals to lead their state troops. If you read the AAR's mentioned, which are excellent, you will get a good idea of how the game is played.
Having played both FoF and the old WBtS game, I would recommend it.