More Cap ship tactics.

[Psycho0124]

Ive come to the conclusion that the Hegemeny Broadsword class destroyer is way out of balance. Going head on with the suckers even in the most powerfull alliance cruiser rarely ends well. Sure they can be destroyed but many Hegemeny cruisers can be killed in the time it takes to take out a broadsword.

An interesting observation: charging head on with the broadsword class destroyer, the destroyers main laser banks cannot be damaged even while facing/fireing on your own ship. even fireing 4 grazers at full charge yields no affect. Surely if a weapon is facing you and shooting at you, you should be able to return the favor and affect damage on it right?

Anyone else noticed this? Anyone have a tactic that works on these beasts? Maybe in the future, a patch will be released which will level off these big imbalances in ship strength. one can always hope i suppose..

Also, has anyone had any luck taking on enemy carriers? It has been my experiance that they like to jump away when under attack and hunting them down can be a long and tedius process. Thier quantum drives seem to be impervious to damage so disableing them in the first few seconds before they jump is a tall order..

[Moriartie]

Agreed on the Broadsword front - I find it infinitely easier to destroyer enemy cruisers than those things as I've stated elsewhere. Indeed I make a point of trying to keep away from them myself so that other allied elements can kill them and I don't get hurt. They're the one thing in my game that actually "scares" me when I'm flying a cap ship.

On the matter of carriers - fortunately they only quantum once, so once you've found them (and assuming they didn't fly into a space station in the intervening time as often happens to me) they're fairly easy so long as you're patient.

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: Psycho0124

Anyone have a tactic that works on these beasts?

I have: take Thunderbolt behind it (Broadsword), target FUSION and fire on it right between engines... and stay clear firing arcs of PDBs. Works at least in Starshatter 4.5

[Zanthras]

they also have a glass chin...hit from below toward the front, target second PRI WEP as you scroll through targetting. You wont actually hit the PDB, but you will hit a soft spot in the hull plating.
 
Use one of your squadron ships as a decoy to get yourself into position.
 
took one out last night with three grazer shots and a torp...

[Psycho0124]

Nice. I need to work on my manuvering skills a bit more as manuvering with shields up on a Devestator class cruiser is nearly impossable. Ive found another meathod that kinda works but it is a little time consuming. Enemy cap ships will not fire thier beam weapons untill they reach 50km exactly. Beams can actually begin fireing at 52km and if you carefully match speed and stay within this 2km range (50-52km) using the retros, you can pull the boradswords teeth before they can get a beam shot off. The torps can easily be destroyed as long as your PDS is working.

Another snag with cruisers.. What can be done about these swarms of anti-ship missiles that come slamming into your hull when you near an enemy carrier? The fighters will fire the mssls while they are still outside of PDS range and even if they happen to wait to release them, the PDS cannot hope to destroy all the fighters before the weapons are released. How does one survive these attacks? I usually just set a nav somewhere else and hit the "auto" button on top before they get close enouh. Failing escape, I just raise shields to full and grit my teeth and hope I survive the assault. Usually I am able to escape but there has to be a better way especially if taking out a carrier is a priority.

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: Psycho0124

Another snag with cruisers.. What can be done about these swarms of anti-ship missiles that come slamming into your hull when you near an enemy carrier?

If you happen to know where carrier is, set shields half or 25% and throttle up. When you get in range or when you take damage, turn shields full, open fire and pray. With little bit of luck you get within effective range of carrier (or other target) to deliver your fire without getting shot too much by fighters. If/when carrier jumps out, make jump too, maybe on same sector as enemy carrier (if you know where it is).

[Bryax]

ORIGINAL: Psycho0124

Ive come to the conclusion that the Hegemeny Broadsword class destroyer is way out of balance.

War has never, ever been fair. Why should we ask for our simulation to be? I've heard people say in this thread that Broadswords scare them. Well, I say, damn straight, thats good. A challenge, something tougher than your own ships.

And not every other match up between Hegemony and Force:Space ships is as fair. The tiger class frigates have a fusion reactor in a position that one can be destroyed in a single full Graser barrage, and I'm sure, if we looked, we would find many strengths and weakness on both sides. If there was a campgain in which you played out the Hegemony side, then I'm sure there would be a forum here about how <insert Force:Space ship here> is overpowered.

Also, charging up a destroyer (A ship designed for one on one ship to ship action) head on is a bad idea, even in a cruiser. Tactical advice? Flank the ship, use some of your squadron to take the fire, use others to overpower the ship, sneaking up beside it. The broadsword's lasers are weak from the sides.

Not trying to sound rude/mean, but part of why I like the game is that each side doesn't have ships with the same stats, just different colors/slightly different sizes. Each ship is unique, so I say we leave them as is.

[JT]

Well, there are two equal and opposite arguments in that domain.&nbsp; The first is realism.&nbsp; The second is gameplay.

Gameplay should always win, even in a space simulation.&nbsp; Too much realism can be grating at times, especially given that people play games in order to escape reality, even if only for a few minutes. =)

[Psycho0124]

A destroyer should never outclass a cruiser. If you want to tout realism here, how realistic would it be for the Hegemeny to even build cruisers when they have such a great and powerfull destroyer at thier disposal? It would be a waste of money! Chalk it up as another glitch as I cannot imagine the Broadsword was meant to be this powerfull. If it was, why would there even be Hegemeny cruisers in the game?

[Zanthras]

ORIGINAL: Bryax

If there was a campgain in which you played out the Hegemony side, then I'm sure there would be a forum here about how <insert Force:Space ship here> is overpowered.

whoa...now that's freaky...

do you suppose there is a doppleganger universe somewhere that this actually happened??[X(]

an antimatter realm...or 5th dimension??

[:'(]

[JT]

One of the first projects I was considering modding for SS:TGS was an Opposing Force type of campaign. =)

[wdboyd]

Psycho0124,

During WWII the lowly plywood PT Boats sank capital ship. It took balls of iron, but it was done.[:D] So much for being outclassed. [;)]

Of course, if the PT Boats were ever hit.... bye bye PT Boat.[:(]

[Psycho0124]

I can agree there. With the right tactics, a victory is almost always possable reguarldess of your assets. I just hate sending my allies to thier deaths just so I can take down a silly destroyer. I guess I can do the "fighting in reverse" thing to kill them off but it seems kinda the "wussy" way to go about it. Oh well..

[Moriartie]

War has never, ever been fair. Why should we ask for our simulation to be?

Because it's a game therefore its primary purpose is to be fun. There are already all manner of non-realistic aspects within the game, one more wouldn't hurt.

Also please bare in mind the game isn't fair. Hegemony forces always outnumber you at the start of a campaign (their carriers carry more too).

[Zanthras]

ORIGINAL: wdboyd

War has never, ever been fair. Why should we ask for our simulation to be?

ORIGINAL: Moriartie
Because it's a game therefore its primary purpose is to be fun. There are already all manner of non-realistic aspects within the game, one more wouldn't hurt.

I am of the opinion that people play games such as these for many reasons, two have been voiced here. Likely there are many others...

Some would say there is a fine line between realism and playability. Other would perhaps say they always want to win, or maybe even if they win the game offers no challenge.

Whatever milo's intent, Starshatter is what it is, and has been. I doubt anything major will change there. If the odds are too tough or too easy you are always have the option of campaign creation. Milo did it. It must be able to be recreated in whatever image you like.

no offense to milo, for personally, I love the game. I have played all campaigns through four times and I am currently working through the fifth. It still challenges me when I choose alternate paths through and different strategies.

Like many others here, I create my own missions for my liking. Some here have played them and loved them, others didn't.

The most awesome thing about SS is you can do what you want. I don't feel I paid for the campaigns, I paid for the engine to do what we do here.

ORIGINAL: Moriartie

Also please bare in mind the game isn't fair. Hegemony forces always outnumber you at the start of a campaign (their carriers carry more too).

alas, this is true...all is not fair in love and war.

"I've always wanted to fight an incredible battle against deperate odds-"
Grig, Navigator 1st class
from the Last Starfighter

[wdboyd]

"The most awesome thing about SS is you can do what you want. I don't feel I paid for the campaigns, I paid for the engine to do what we do here."

Zanthras, that nails the true beauty of&nbsp; Starshatter. Modding is an adventure in and of itself. Gratifiying and frustrating at the same time.
&nbsp;
Nothing like seeing your own creations in the game and the challenge of creating original missions to contend in. Starshatter is indeed more than a spaceship game with a campaign to play. It offers an entire Galaxy to play in that's only limited by ones time and effort. [:'(]

[Zanthras]

ORIGINAL: Psycho0124

I can agree there. With the right tactics, a victory is almost always possable reguarldess of your assets. I just hate sending my allies to thier deaths just so I can take down a silly destroyer. I guess I can do the "fighting in reverse" thing to kill them off but it seems kinda the "wussy" way to go about it. Oh well..

It's a good thing you dont want to pointlessly send ships to die. But you can coordinate the strike so that losses are minimal, it just takes some juggling...

Turn the disadvantage into an advantage, use nav points in the mission briefing to bring more force to bear while sending CVGs to a safe sector. It can be done with little to no losses, it just takes some thought.

[Psycho0124]

Ive been using a new tactic to deal with those Broadswords. Its been mentioned elsewhere that you can set a nav point and use the auto option to get in close before the enemy has a chance to respond. Unfortunately it doesnt help much when your heavily outnumbered.

Ive found that if you set appropriate nav points to get your ship behind the enemy ships, then set a nav point to bring you very near them but with the speed set to 1000, the auto will make that speed and send you on a high speed pass on the enemy caps. As they try and turn around to bring thier guns to bear, you will get a clear shot on thier reactor and usually be able to take one even two out without taking any damage. The nice thing is that travelling at 1000kph, you will quickly move out of range of any other ships that you were not able to take down which minimizes damage when your really outnumbered.

Kinda cool to see a cruiser going that fast as well. Just make sure&nbsp; to avoid setting a colission course as you cant do any manuvering at that speed.[;)]

[Galdred]

In the first campaign, I have tried manoeuvering my asher against the braodswords to attack it from the belly/rear, but they launch a volley of missiles, and my PDB don't do anything against them, resulting in my going down before I even have a chance to fire my main gun. It doesn't seem to be horrible luck , because it keeps happening. Are the Broadsword missiles like the ones launched from fighters with no way to counter them? Or do the PDB only protect against attacks from a limited angle?

[Zanthras]

there is a limited firing arc to the PDBs. you have to be almost&nbsp;head on&nbsp;for them to be effective.