RHS 5 & 6.758 comprehensive update uploaded/frozen/final?

[el cid again]

Pwhex set 6.62 is released - normal and panama both.

These turn the upper Yangtze River into an "internal river system" complete with ports and tiny naval units - none armed with more than an mg. The same area also features a "Chinese Grand Canyon" of blocked hex sides - yet another way to rough up China. The art needs to be updated slightly - Cobra was waiting for this file to issue it.
[The trail along the Yangtze is always on the North or East side - it never crosses the river - for example]

Some mismatched hex sides were also fixed.

There will be a micro update for 6.62 today - pretty much devoted to eratta - and defining ports/vessels for interior river systems.

I will leave the Pearl River as external - ocean ships do navigate it - but there will be the following internal systems, in order of size:

a) Amur/Usurri/Sungari system
b) Upper Yangtze (above Wuhan/Hankow)
c) Upper Yellow River
d) Ganges (converted from external river system)
e) Mekong

The later two are not contested. b and c are contested only by mg armed vessels. a is heavily contested, but unless air power is used to mess up its ships, the Soviets dominate it.

Now for Level 5 pwhex files.

[el cid again]

These micro updates have only 3 files - ship, class and location -
and need to be put on top of 6.62 or 5.62 respectively.

Eratta incorporated.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym
2. The Ships of the SN Lekaryev MSW Class (9447-9458) arrive all in Seattle.
3. The Ships of the SN BO901 SC Class (9459-9476) arrive all in Nome.

Lend-lease vessels built in US.

[el cid again]

Monter is correct. This is deliberate - and reasonably accurate. They surely didn't start in the USSR. In some game situations they may not find it easy to get there - and they can theoretically join other Allied formations. Because they could. Or they can try for home.

[el cid again]

A minor set of eratta to the location file and pwhex files - but also adding Imperial Manchukuo Navy land units
at a seaport and a river port - and expanding the Yangtze river system southward in the interior of China.

All known location file eratta corrected.

[CobraAus]

ok the bad new to start with SID's WITP file have done a wobbly and spat the dummy
result no can run WITP corrution and loss of files so he has to rebuild, I can see now in my minds eye his discourse with the bloody PC
happens to us all over time

now I need some help with some pics or art
Subject Manchukuo and Russian river gunoats

I can find only written ref to the follow ships all river gunboats need pics so I can do the art
TING PIEN - CHING JEN - SHUN TIEN - YANG MIN - HAI LUNG - LI SUI - KUANG NING - HAI KUANG -
TA TUNG

any pics of Russian river gunboats for ship art work

or any web sites I could try

Cobra

[el cid again]

Trouble in River City. Right here in River City!

I am unable to run ANY version of WITP.

Reinstall works ONLY at level 1.0 - won't update.

Until this is corrected- progress grinds to a halt.

Meanwhile, Down Under - Cobra is having trouble of a hardware variety.

We plan to do a comprehensive data file/pwhex file/art release for 6.3

We are getting good eratta feedback - and this may be a very nice set.
The only reason it won't be complete is that we could spend many months reworking
minor ships - now we have figured out how to add thousands while freeing up slots.
But we will do a nice subset and release for human testing - at last. At least the old
"there are no slots" problem no longer applies to ships!

China has become rougher - and its economy more robust. Among other things pwhex work
reveals the road/rail net was not right - and it will work better now. I love the "Chinese Grand
Canyon" - and so does the AI. I hope we are as happy with the Amur/Usurri/Sungari river system -
which is potentially a bigger deal. It is a "two edged sword" pointed at Harbin in one direction and
Kharbarovsk/Komsomolsk/Nikolaevsk in the other. Might also permit flanking of the defenses of
Vladivostok - and in reverse flanking the defenses of Harbin (which happened IRL). The frontier
is no longer "safe" for IJA to strip and send South either. Leave the Sungari uncovered? Maybe the
Soviet Red Army will exploit it? And of course vice versa - for the Amur/Usurri.

[el cid again]

We have at last been able to get a Level 5 pwhex file working - and I have invented a new way to generate pwhex files so updating them is not a line by line process (and fewer operations means fewer errors during the update process). So Level 5 users may see the Yangtze interior waterway - and the first offerings of grouped small vessels (albit not with grouped art - which will appear in 5.30). There also are a number of fixed eratta - and the introduction of some new river ports - and the land (and air observation) units of the Imperial Manchukuo Navy (one base on the Bohei Gulf - one on the Sungari River at Harbin - the former being also Navy HQ).

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Hi Sid. Have you added Soviet Shtorm class escorts and Soviet monitors to RHS?

[el cid again]

Yes and no.

They are in unissued files - and Cobra is not doing too well with finding art materials. My scanner went down - and I must lose a day to send him images of Manchukuo and Russian vessels.

I think the Sturms are used in the ocean - not in the river system - but there is a gross shortage of Russian patrol craft - and in particular of ASW armed craft - so I will add them somewhere. Any idea where they were based?

We have Russian language data indicating a top speed of 21 knots - not far from your data if 25 refers to mph -
and that the DC were throwers - 2 of them. This is about right for a patrol craft not focused on ASW. Presumably K guns - did the Soviet's use a Y gun?

The Russian says 930 nautical miles at 14 knots. It lists "many" 20 mm - which seems strange - no mg.

I am trying to add some of the Soviet guns for ships - permitting better caliber representation - by combining minor ones.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Shtorm - Borders patrol was her primary task during peace time, but ASW was her primary task during war.

Seems that correct name of this class was Uragan. It is not uncommon for Soviet Navy that they call the clas in each fleet differently after first ships arriving in their fleet. So class Uragan was named correctly in Arctic as Uragan, in Baltic they were called Tayfun class, and in Black Sea - Shtorm class.

Another version of data gives them 23 knots at power of 6300hp. But still don't see 20mm guns - only 3 x 13,2mm MGs. Maybe they were upgraded later? Maybe your data is for units from other theatre (small differences between different flets were not unusual)?

As to you question about K/Y guns - term exists only in US (or "Western") terminology, for me DC thrower is a DC thrower. What is the difference between K and Y guns?

[CobraAus]

Shtorm - Borders patrol was her primary task during peace time, but ASW was her primary task during war.

do you by change any pics of the Shtorm boats

Cobra Aus

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Shtorm - Borders patrol was her primary task during peace time, but ASW was her primary task during war.

Seems that correct name of this class was Uragan. It is not uncommon for Soviet Navy that they call the clas in each fleet differently after first ships arriving in their fleet. So class Uragan was named correctly in Arctic as Uragan, in Baltic they were called Tayfun class, and in Black Sea - Shtorm class.

Another version of data gives them 23 knots at power of 6300hp. But still don't see 20mm guns - only 3 x 13,2mm MGs. Maybe they were upgraded later? Maybe your data is for units from other theatre (small differences between different flets were not unusual)?

As to you question about K/Y guns - term exists only in US (or "Western") terminology, for me DC thrower is a DC thrower. What is the difference between K and Y guns?

These vessels - which you correctly speculated correspond well to Coast Guard cutters - and which have essentially the same design role (in WWII USGC did ASW) - were successful and long lived. They probably got upgraded after the war to use the 20mm in place of the classical AAMG used when they were designed.

The term K and Y refer to the way the gun works. A K gun is sort of a pipe with a pipe off to one side - bent upward and outward - a spigot onto which the DC is placed - with an explosive charge inside a pipe that in effect "throws" the DC - in the direction the arm is facing. A Y gun is a double mechanism - one arm to both sides - and it fires two DC at the same time - in opposite directions - the recoil forces neatly balanced so it does not tear out the deck - not even as bad as a K gun does! K guns are placed near the side - just enough room between them and the side to load a DC. Y guns are placed on the centerline - and fire one round off both sides at one time. This helps insure a proper pattern.
A later variation of this is a triple DC mortar - a 3 barroled weapon firing 3 DC from classical mortars vice spigot mortars. The 3 tubes are directed so that they produce a circular (equalateral triangular actually) pattern centered on the datum point. Yet another variation is the Hedgehog - a tiny spigot mortar with a large number of rounds fired in a circular (oval actually) pattern - just strong enough to crack the hull of a Type VII U boat. A still tinier version of that is Mousetrap. These were clever - but as subs got bigger and stronger - the later weapons went away - while the DC is STILL used - and so is the triple ASW mortar.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: CobraAus

Shtorm - Borders patrol was her primary task during peace time, but ASW was her primary task during war.

do you by change any pics of the Shtorm boats

Cobra Aus

http://warships.web4ucz/lode.phe?langua ... %c5%A0torm

For some reason this copy fails - go to the Small Soviet Ships thread and see Dili's version


Line drawing p 339 of Conways All the World's Fighting Ships 1922-1946
note the class is defined as URAGAN - per what Monter said above the class name differs for each fleet

[Monter_Trismegistos]

ORIGINAL: el cid again
http://warships.web4ucz/lode.phe?langua ... %c5%A0torm

For some reason this copy fails - go to the Small Soviet Ships thread and see Dili's version

You made a lot mess in this link (for example: lack of dot between web4u and cz). The correct one:
http://warships.web4u.cz/lode.php?langu ... %C5%A0torm

Also I have info that those (probably some of them) ships lost their torpedo tubes during 1942 - so probably they had their AA armament increased.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: el cid again


and that the DC were throwers - 2 of them. This is about right for a patrol craft not focused on ASW. Presumably K guns - did the Soviet's use a Y gun?

They used BMB-1 depth charge projectors that fired one bomb at a time or ordinary depth charge racks. Soviet navy either used BB-1 (large) or BM-1 (small) depth charges of Russian production. At least the Arctic Fleet received British Mk VII depth charges (via lend-and-lease), but I don't think that any made their way to the Pacific Fleet.

[el cid again]

Concur your assessment - many IJN ships also gave up TT for more light AAA during the war. And by mid 1942 it was obvous that aircraft were much more of a threat than anyone had believed in mid 1941.

[el cid again]

RHS 5.623 and 6.623 will be comprehensive updates INCLUDING pwhex file sets AND ship art sets.
This is not quite x.63 because there is so much to do - but it is a big step in that direction.

These updates mainly can be said to involve

MORE empty ship slots
MORE small craft represented (river craft, landing craft, gunboats, etc) - but fewer slots used for them
MORE internal river system hexes open to navigation (mainly Yellow River and Amur River system related)
[And a technical addition of one external river system - the mouth of the Old Yellow River is navigable for one hex]
LESS eratta for ships and land land units (devices, classes, aircraft and air groups appear clean)

CHANGES to the characteristics of the Yak-9D (it carries a bomb load) and the Yak-9UF (it has greater range
due to drop tanks).

ADDITION of the Australian Army 3rd Watercraft Transport Group which includes at least the
41st, 42nd and 43rd Landing Craft Companies (50x ALC-50 LCMs each)
and possibly 51st and 52nd Water Transport Companies

Possible addition of Shore Battalions for US Army Engineer EBS Regiments - which have all been reclassified as US Army vice US Navy (in terms of their watercraft elements).

Possible addition of new classes of Soviet coast guard vessels and rivercraft - if the art catches up with us in time for this update.

Redefinition of road/railroad/trail definitions where required for technical reasons to help China, Manchuria and Russia function economically in the context of the new interior river systems (we are removing the old ferry markers on these systems and the associated code "under the hood" that made them work - in favor of real watercraft or visible roads/trails) - and to correct errors between art and coding.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym

ORIGINAL: el cid again

This is a combination release:

It includes data washed location and ship files, the usual eratta

It appears we may get the data folded in - and errors checked by rewashing - by about Monday or Tuesday.

El Cid

About errors. I have find the following

1. The TOF 13 Gds Naval Inf (2517) has still the Indian nationality.
2. The Ships of the SN Lekaryev MSW Class (9447-9458) arrive all in Seattle.
3. The Ships of the SN BO901 SC Class (9459-9476) arrive all in Nome.

4. The following ships have no Nationality.
SN Smolinsk (9222)
SN Dzerzhinski (9696)
SN Kirov (9707)
SN Vorovsky (9731)

Thanks

[el cid again]

A cut fiber optic cable has prevented communications with/to Alaska. I have proceeded to nearly complete the pwhex files at 6.63 level (all interior waterways and all eratta). I will issue these in about 5 hours (after work).

I also have nearly completed the 6.623 file set - to a higher level than intended - very nearly 6.63 level -
and will try to get them out in about 12 hours. I will see if we can send the art - or ask Cobra to post it.
While we are still doing art revisions - they are also nearly completed - and winding down. Lots of new ships and some map materials.

I have added some locations in India and Thailand and China - along the river systems - and tested the river systems. AI will NOT use them UNLESS I also program task forces - at least for the Allies. It uses external rivers normally - but interior ones it does not use unless there is an existing cargo/tanker/transport TF.