HnM2 vs HPS FIW

[DeadInThrench]

I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the Austrians used 4 ranks... UNTIL after the battles of Prague/Kolin... when they, for whatever reason, decided to go with what the Prusssians were going with... 3 ranks.

Also, according to Wikipedia... there were some cases... of 5 ranks. Not sure what army or armies this was but.... it is mentioned there in Wikipedia.

DeadInTrench

[anvl]

Panama Red... Lol,, one can wish. So i would rather see larger hexes, terrain more to scale with the individual figs, and 12 figs per battalion. recognise that you don't have to use 12 figs if this is done, but this covers all, or most situations. from full strength units to atrition effects for specific scenarios.


The Austrians went to a 3 rank formation at the end of the WAS,, the Prussians went to a 2 rank formation at the same time. Both used a 2 rank formation by Kolin.

DiT Check Duffy and others for your sources, not wikipedia. You also mentioned somewhere about the Prussians having 5 companies\battalion. This was true, but one company was grenadiers and they were split off and converged into grenadier battalions,, so for all practical purposes, a Prussian line battalion consisted of 4 companies. Also somewhere you mentioned the Battle of Lovositz and the Prussians use of lights.. The Prussians had no lights in their OOB and certanly did not split off any troops from the infantry battalions to perform as lights. this was not done until the time of Nappy. The only lights\irregulars here were the Austrian Grenzers who were supported by Austrian line battalions that fought in line formation.

anvil

[Panama Red]

Anvl:
Thank you, I knew the wikipedia was incorrect (and this is not the first time either), but was still trying to find where I had read about the reduction of ranks for all the combatants.

[DeadInThrench]

Guys.... you say I should check my sources but.... ya know, it would be kinda nice, if you read what I actually posted before you contradicted me.

No.... I did not quote Wikipedia re anything on the the number of ranks in Austrian and Prussian lines. The only thing I quoted Wikipedia on was that, according to them, there were some cases of 5 ranks and, subsequent posts here in this forum... seem to validate that assertion.

As far as saying that the Austrians used 4 ranks and didn't go to 3 until after Prague/Kolin... I believe that was what someone posted here in these forums... which, is as valid as anything you post. If, on the other hand, you referenced a source (particularly when you are contradicting someone), with name of source, page, etc, then it might give more credibility to what you are saying. Otherwise... a bunch of dogs barking in the night (ruff ruff).

Next... I don't recall saying anything about Prussians having 5 companies per battalion. I might have stated that they MIGHT have that many.... but in fact, I simply don't know how many they had... and would not be surprised if it varied from time to time.

Next... obviously... the Prussians did not have light infantry. But, their line infantry WAS able to function as light infantry. Sheesh.... I believe this is a well known fact... that at Lobositz... I believe in storming the lobosch... their line infantry fuctioned like light infantry (e.g. skirmish order in HnM2 terms), and the whole world marveled at this. My reference here is not exact... probably commentary in various board wargames that I have played... or articles in wargame pubs.... or possibly FtGs book. Just thought this was well known to anyone interested in this period.

Sheesh... if checking Duffy, etc, would make me end up making invalid assertions without referencing anything... might be better off not so checking.

DeadInTrench

[anvl]

Dit,,

Hey on many of your posts you asked for feedback,,well ya gots it from me... no need for the petty stuff,,,

"If, on the other hand, you referenced a source (particularly when you are contradicting someone), with name of source, page, etc, then it might give more credibility to what you are saying. Otherwise... a bunch of dogs barking in the night (ruff ruff)."

you have listed no sources,,only mentioned wikipedia,, now i have given you a great list for you to explore and enjoy.. positive, no? [;)] [8D],, again,,, sorry, but with my own reading list,Winter x-country skiing during the best ski year in a long time,,my Shop project,,game stuff,etc,,, i just don't have the time to sift thru and find page and paragraph for you,,

anvil

[Iñaki Harrizabalagatar]

ORIGINAL:

The Austrians went to a 3 rank formation at the end of the WAS,, the Prussians went to a 2 rank formation at the same time. Both used a 2 rank formation by Kolin.

Prussian and Austrian deployed in 3 ranks as late as the Napoleonic wars, understrength units though could be deployed just 2 ranks deep in order to get the required frontage.

[anvl]

Iñaki Harrizabalagatar,,

Lol, the joys and debates of militery history. We are both correct here,, According to Duffy, The Army of Frederick the Great, the Prussians went to a 3 rank formation by 1742, but during the SYW due to lack of manpower went to a 2 rank line. After the "emergency he returned to a 3 rank line.

without checking,, i believe the Austrians were in the same situation, but I set them to a 3 rank line for all conflicts.

I set my WAS\Silesian War Prussians to a 3 rank line and use a 2 rank line for the SYW..

anvil

[anvl]

Panama Red,,

have you ever set up a game on this smaller scale? It works pretty good. I did this once and had each unit of 8 actually equal a company,,and added 3lb battalion guns. It worked pretty well,,other than the battalion guns,, [:(]. plays good too..

anvil

[Panama Red]

Anvl:
I have not created any scenarios like this, but I have played the small scale scenario "Assault of Krzeczhorz" that was included with the PG game. It was interesting, but I prefer the larger battles with thousands of men.

I also would like to thank you on all the referances that you gave on this area. I love history and these look like good books to add to my reading list. I am currently reading "With Musket, Cannon and Sword" by Brent Nosworthy and find it a fasinating book.

[anvl]

Panama Red,,

I have just been getting into Nosworthy,, Lol,, he is on my list. The book i want from him is a bit out of my pocketbook at the moment,,

check out the google link i posted,, or go to google, and click where it says "more" and it will bring you to their book search. try seven years war, frederick the great,, etc for a search and you will be in awe as to what is avalable in downloadable pdf from them..

anvil

[Panama Red]

Anvl:
I have already bookmarked the Google site you posted and I plan to fully explore it. Thank you very much [&o][&o][&o]