Ability for IJN player to cheat in PBEM?

[Chad Harrison]

Hi all

I apologize if this has been answered before, but I am in the process of playing my first PBEM game. I am playing as the Allies and enjoying watching my ships sink all over the Pacific theatre

Heres my question though. I know that the IJN player has to quit out of the game before they can open another PBEM turn, and that results are hard coded; ie. replaying the turn over and over will not net different results. However, is there anything to stop the IJN player from changing their moves and essentially replaying thier turn due to undesired results in the replay?

In other words, for example the IJN player moves their carrier force and it is assulted by an unkown carrier force and is completely destroyed. Could they go back to the original file emailed by their opponent, reopen the original file, and change their moves to avoid that situation altogether? This way an entirely new turn result would be generated since their carriers would not move close the now known location of the Allied carriers.

OBVIOUSY, this is merely an example, as my carriers in December of 41 are busy hiding, and by no means do I feel like my opponent is cheating in any way. This just crossed my mind and it seemed too obvious of an exploit to be not addressed in some way. Im sure I have just overlooked some aspect of the game that would not allow you to do this.

Again, this is my first PBEM in this game, so I apologize is this question marks me as the new class nooB.

Thanks in advance

Chad

[stldiver]

No, that is not possible unless they have your password and can see the results.

Don't worry any mistakes are your own, as mine are mine. :0), Enjoy the fog of war, your not against the AI anymore.

Oh yes for anyone concerned we are not oponents,

[jwilkerson]

In pBEM, the Japanese player sees the replay, then makes their moves. So to go back before the replay and change the Japanese moves would require them to go back before the Allied player turn. This would somehow require the Allied turn to get redone. Not likely to happen without the Allied players knowledge!

Likewise, the Allied player makes their moves and then sends turn to the Japanese. Unless the Allied player knows the Japanese player password, the Allied player cannot see the replay until after the Japanese player has seen the replay and made their moves and sent the turn back to the Allied player. Hence the Allied player also has no way to see the results and change their move either.

[Feinder]

when the ijn player runs the turn, it already has your moves.  If he reruns the turn, he will get the same results.  I suppose he could re-load a saved copy of the turn before he sent it to you, make his moves, and then send it to you.  But you'd be able to see the date on the turn (that it hadn't advanced and that you'd already entered the orders).
 
Frankly, I've had this happen on -accident- where an oppoenent sent me a prior turn (but it wasn't even the immediatly preceeding turn, it was from a week ago).  In which case, you just punt it back with a quick note that it's a prior turn.
 
I -seriously- doubt anybody would try to pull a fast one, and send you the same turn twice.  While many folks will scream bloody murder at each over which fighter was actually superior while on these boards, I don't know of a single PBEM game where you had players actively trying to cheat.
 
I wouldn't worry about it.  But, if you do have somebody like that.  Just drop 'em, it's not worth it.
 
-F- 

[RUPD3658]

I can confirm that the results will not change if the turn is re-run as Japan. I have had the same turn accidentally sent to me and got the same results as before. We also had a problem with the game crashing when I bombarded a base and had to run the same turn about 5 times to get it to work. Even with minor changes on my part and the same orders on my opponant's part the turn was nearly identical except for the bombardment being cancelled.

The Allies actually have the advantage in PBEM since they can see changes in port/AF colors before issuing their orders. They also seem to get betting intel on what is in ports/AFs just by hovering the mouse over them even if they are out of range of any or their own aircraft. I guess this makes up for SigInt not being as good as in real life.

[Chad Harrison]

Thats what I was missing. The IJN player sees the results BEFORE they make their move. I thought that I emailed them back the save game file for say 12/20/41, they made their move for 12/20/41 and then watched the outcome of the turn. But the IJN player watches the 12/19/41 replay, makes their 12/20/41 move, emailes me their 12/20/41 move and the 12/19/41 replay.
 
Again, in no way did I think my opponent is cheating, actually even if there was a way to cheat I would never suspect my one and only opponent of doing so. He doesnt need too anyways, it would appear that I am more than happy to give him plenty of targets I knew I was missing something about how this all works, as again this is my first PBEM and I am playing as the Allies.
 
As a side note, Ill just throw in that a human opponent makes the AI look like a 2 year old leading an army. It has proven to be quite . . . interesting
 
Thanks again
 
Chad

[Ursa MAior]

Well you CAN cheat. I found it out by acident, when a short circuit has shut down my computer and after reloading I got different (worse tho) results.

[Nikademus]

Cheating is always possible. Both players can save their games without ending the turn thus giving them a reload opp. The Japan player can thus save his turn in a slot without ending........end the turn in another slot and then watch the replay. If he doesn't like what he sees, he can reload the un-ended turn and possibly make enough changes to alter the combat exectution.

Why someone would go to these lengths though has always baffled me. If you want to win above all else at all times....play the AI. [:D]

[Troopsurge]

It's easy to cheat while transferring aircraft by saving the game right before the transfer, and if any aircraft die in the transfer you can reload and try again and hope that no aircraft will die in the new attempt. I think this cheat works in both single player and multiplayer and for both Japs and Allies. By using this cheat repeatedly, you can totally eliminate aircraft losses while transferring aircraft for the entire game.

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Cheating is always possible. Both players can save their games without ending the turn thus giving them a reload opp. The Japan player can thus save his turn in a slot without ending........end the turn in another slot and then watch the replay. If he doesn't like what he sees, he can reload the un-ended turn and possibly make enough changes to alter the combat exectution.

Pretty sure this is not possible. Once you start a game as PBEM, I don't believe you can open it as H2H or HvsComputer. But then I never tried....[;)]

[Feinder]

I know what he's saying. Basically, you keep a turn, "just before ending". Send the ended turn. Japan runs it. Makes his moves, sends you completed new turn. But instead of using the new turn, you make changes to the "just before ending" turn, and send it to Japan.

Granted, Japan has to *not* notice that the the turn is actually a replay of the same turn.

To eliminate the situation, either play just "sits" on the correct turn, in this case, Japan with the correct turn, and re-sends the correct turn.

Again, if somebodys going to try to cheat. Opena dialog first, to see if it was a mistake. But if it's a problem, just drop 'em. It's not worth it.

-F-

[Nikademus]

actually, on second thought..yes, the Allied player has to send back his completed turn, then the current turn combat is resolved.....the Japan player then sends a copy [of the combat replay) to the Allied player. Yawn.....this is what happens when you have to swear off coffee early in the morning.

[Nikademus]

Just goes to show....cheating takes too much effort. [:D]

I'd rather conserve brain cells trying to manage Allies in 44.

[kkoovvoo]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I know what he's saying. Basically, you keep a turn, "just before ending". Send the ended turn. Japan runs it. Makes his moves, sends you completed new turn. But instead of using the new turn, you make changes to the "just before ending" turn, and send it to Japan.

Granted, Japan has to *not* notice that the the turn is actually a replay of the same turn.

Well, you have to play against complete idiot to succeed with this kind of "ćheating".

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Just goes to show....cheating takes too much effort. [:D]

I'd rather conserve brain cells trying to manage Allies in 44.

Send more carriers to saipan! [:D]

[Nikademus]

shutup Axis fanboy.....

just you wait.....your going to get it!

[RUPD3658]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Just goes to show....cheating takes too much effort. [:D]

I'd rather conserve brain cells trying to manage Allies in 44.

Come 44 you don't need brain cells to manage the Allies. Real simple plan: "Everybody go that way and take that base". Wash, rinse, repeat, and you are in the HI by 45. [;)]

[Chad Harrison]

If you have to go to such great lengths to cheat, I dont see why anyone would. I dont think this game appeals to cheater types. When it takes 4 years to end a game against another human player, that pretty much defeats the purpose of cheating in my opinion.

[PzB74]

WitP is based upon trust between opponents as well as passwords.
Since I've had 4 opponents for my AAR game, I had to get the original pwd from Wobbly.
I simply gave this and my own password to my new opponents in order to 'bring balance to the force' [;)]

I have been saving my turns quite often before ending them though, especially when WitP crashed 3-4 times each day
after some ugly XP patch. Lately I've also been saving the game before transferring air units to my carriers. Sometimes they all end up
as damaged, and sometimes not. Haven't been able to figure our why or how yet, but there's clearly an issue here and the only way to
avoid it is to save before transfer.

[Feinder]

Sometimes they all end up
as damaged, and sometimes not. Haven't been able to figure our why or how yet, but there's clearly an issue here and the only way to
avoid it is to save before transfer.

This was a dubvious "feature" introduced with v1.8.0.4.

If your TF is in a base hex and is docked, it unloads them to "crates" (all damaged). I *believe* that if your CV is "at sea" (even if in port hex), it flys the AC off, and they are *not* damaged at the new base.

Frankly, I think it's annoying. But I believe it was introduced to fix a bug, so it's sort of a necessary evil.

-F-