Is invading Australia as easy at it seems?

[Icedawg]

I ask because I'm about to start up another game against the AI (each time there is a patch, I usually start games against the AI over from scratch - for some reason, I just can't continue my existing games with the knowledge that something in them was screwed up.)

To this point, I've never invaded Australia simply because of the ahistorical nature of such a move. However, I'm awfully tempted to take those more or less undefended bases in NW Australia (Broome, Darwin, Wyndham etc). I'm planning on using the 56th Brigade and the SNLF's stationed at Palau (once they take care of the southern Philippines, Kendari and Amboina). In addition, the 2nd Division will be steaming south from Kagoshima with an assortment of combat engineers, tanks and artillery for support. It seems as though this force should EASILY take all of those bases in NW Australia (I'm predicting by mid January or early February).

For anyone who has tried this, is it really as easy as it looks? And if so, why didn't the Japanese try doing so in real life?

[niceguy2005]

I don't play Japan in the game so I can't answer the first question.

As to the second, there was a plan floated for the invasion and conquest of Australia, but honestly, to what end? What could Japan hope to gain by such a manuever. To beat an army is one thing, but to occupy a foreign country, in particular one not used to occupation, is another. How much of its army would be consumed with suppression of the population? The U.S. would still be marching on the home islands and a significant amount of force would be deployed in Australia. Japan was after the natural resources of the SRA, Australia would have been a side show.

[Icedawg]

I suspect you are right about this. In real life, the value of invading Australia would have been minimal.

In game terms however, there is no "occupation" to deal with in Australia (like in Manchukuo) and there are some pretty attractive resource centers there (a couple of 300 or 600 resource points I believe). So, as far as the game is concerned, it seems like a worthwhile venture.

[Mike Solli]

In one of my PBEMs I did invade Darwin.  The goal was to trash his B-25s and B-17 sitting there.  I had bombarded the place a couple of time and did destroy a good number of them, while damaging a bunch more.  I invaded and took the place destroying the damaged planes.  I destroyed over 200 planes.  Looking at my notes, it happened in early May 42.  I stayed about a month and successfully withdrew my forces.  I was afraid it would have turned into a self-sustaining POW camp.  You need to ship all supply there while the Allies can use the roads to supply any relief force.  Once Allied air power builds up, you're dead meat.
 
Basically, I think Northern Australia is easy to take but practically impossible to hold.  I'd much rather use those land forces to defend the SRA.

[Icedawg]

But if you can take all four of the bases in NW Australia, the next closest Allied bases are Perth and Alice Springs, both of which (I think) are beyond range of all Allied bombers but the B29. If you can take all of these bases, you should be able to absolutely pummel the Allied troops marching overland to retake them. In addition, if the Allied player devotes a large number of LCU's to retaking NW Australia, he'll have to leave the Eastern coast relatively lightly defended. This could create a nice opportunity to take some really valuable bases (assuming you have already taken PM and Noumea).

The supply issue might not be as serious a problem as you may think. You have to supply Lautem and Kupang (I'm assuming barring an invasion of Australia, these would be heavily garrisoned) anyway. By invading and taking NW Australia, you wouldn't have to garrison these bases in Timor as heavily and the supplies and troops that would have been devoted to them could go to your newly taken Austalian colony.

[Raverdave]

In my PBEM with someone whom I shall not mention, he has indeed invaded Australia........he has taken South Australia and all of New South Wales.  Melbourne is under seige but I am hopeful that it will hold for a number of months.  He has the ability to take Perth and Darwin, but Queensland will be a tough nut for him to crack, and if anything all the invasion has done is to lock down a good number of his troops that could have been used for the defense of the Pacific. 

[denisonh]

Ask Amiral laurent, as it is end of Jun42 in our PBEM and he owns all of Australia west of Alice Springs and is looking to take more. That has been his main effort as opposed to India, NG or the South Pacific.

We are playing stock, which IMO makes it much easier than it should be. ABs map makes it a bit more realistic and much tougher to hold. It makes for an interesting, if not different, game.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

In my PBEM with someone whom I shall not mention, he has indeed invaded Australia........he has taken South Australia and all of New South Wales.  Melbourne is under seige but I am hopeful that it will hold for a number of months.  He has the ability to take Perth and Darwin, but Queensland will be a tough nut for him to crack, and if anything all the invasion has done is to lock down a good number of his troops that could have been used for the defense of the Pacific. 

This is the way I see it. Against the AI it might be possible to conquer all of Australia. I doubt it could be done against a human. Australia has a formidable army.

Have you considered taking New Caldonia and New Zealand? Easier to capture and better return for your effort. You could then blockade all of the South Pacific.

[madflava13]

It can definitely be done - but why would you? Aside from the above poster who took Darwin for a short time period, and for a specific reason, I don't think an IJN player should do so - you just squander lots of troops far from supply in a place that's eventually easy for the Allies to isolate.

Do it if you have a good reason and a good timetable... Otherwise, invader beware!

[Honda]

I went for Australia for one good reason - Raverdave is an Aussie and it adds to the fun. Nothing like a good oldfashion homeland war[:D]
We'll see how it plays out, but I fancy my chances more then Raver's at the moment. This empty Pacific talk...why doesn't he take it then? Oh yes, he tryed and failed. Australia will be mine yet, and it will serve a major purpose. A few actualy:
1. Australian forces out of the war (very nice when Allied steamroller gets on his way)
2. Australia is a good producer of supply - so far my only inbound convoy has been an oil shipment for heavy industry

It was a huge risk of course, but it attained surprise and worked. In fact Raver, everything seems to have worked, right?[;)[8D]

So, if your opponent can see an Australia invasion coming, you're more or less doomed. Plan for it from the outset, I don't think Australia is an option you can switch to at some point in the game 'cause you feel like it. So far, I did everything right and still the outcome hangs on a thread.

[String]

I think these examples, especially when well publicized, will be very useful in keeping allied players in check and preventing them from stripping areas from units.

I think noone pulls out large units from India before late '42 after operation hangover in PZB's AAR

[buzzz123]

quote]there was a plan floated for the invasion and conquest of Australia, but honestly, to what end? What could Japan hope to gain by such a manuever. To beat an army is one thing, but to occupy a foreign country, in particular one not used to occupation, is another. How much of its army would be consumed with suppression of the population?[/quote]
 
What population?? The NW coast of Aus is a whole lot of nothing. There was only about 15 million of us back then - and about 14 million lived in the SE corner, with the other mill scattered across the country.
 
Historically the Aus government were willing to withdraw 3/4 of the way across the country - let the japs die of thirst, starvation, and snake bite in the desert!
 
In reality an invasion of NW Australia would have achieved nothing, and IRL an advance overland from there is virtually impossible.

[Vetamur]

In RL the Navy brought it up after taking the SRA etc. easier than they expected. As soon as they brought it up, the Army shot the idea down.. they simply didnt have the resources to do it.
 
In the game..Im a beginner. But in my PBEM (my first) I am seriously tempted.. Ive sunk all but one US carrier  and that one is damaged.. sank a convoy conveying USAAF planese to Australia or Noumua (70 P-40s and I forget how many P-39s), so I basically have a free hand in the Pacific. I have all my carriers (3 of them damaged) except one.. and basically am looking for something to do with the troops besides just deciding its time to defend. Its April 42 and..like I said.. Australia is looking awfully tempting. Get some heavy industy if nothing else..then pull out when he starts to be able to challenge again.

[JeffroK]

Just plan the Invasion for a Friday evening, before a long weekend if possible.
 
A problem with WITP and an Invasion of Australia is that it doesnt represent any ability to ramp up the defenders, I reckon another 2-3 Divs could have been built, It doesnt allow the RAAF to deploy the large numbers of obsolete Battle, Anson light bombers (just like the Brits would have done ina SeaLion Invasion). Something like the "VietMinh" trigger to allow 2-3 Divs (maybe 6-9 Bdes would be better) at major Cities should Australia be Invaded would be more representative of the defenders abilities.
 
PS. OZ only had a 5mill +- population at the time.
 
I'd let the Japs take OZ, then aim my 1943-44 assault through Kwajalein,Truk, Saipan. Plus get the RN to threaten Perth, Geraldton etc

[John 3rd]

I have invaded NW Aussieland several times and managed to hold it for quite some period.  Usually go for it in mid-42 (If I am not attacking Ceylon/India/New Zealand) and keep as long as possible!
 
Want those damned 4EB to stay away from my resource sites.
 
I held NW Australia through early-1943 in a game against Moses before we stopped it.  In my long-running campaign with Wolfpack, now in late-Feb 1944, I STILL possess it and am making a renewed offensive to occupy my opponent's attention and KEEP HIM AWAY from PM and Rabaul.
 

[moses]

I tried retaking North Austrailia from John but it was much more difficult then it would seem. The problem is that there are no intermediate air bases that you can use for support. So as you approach you get bombed day after day with everything he has. Then he just pulls back into his city with level 9 forts and you'll just have to fight forever while he adds naval bombardment to the daily air attacks. Its just too much and I retreated before I even got that far.

The only way to retake it is too bring carrier air but of course John sunk all my carriers.[:@]

In my current game Jwilkerson just invaded Darwin with 2 divisions on Jan 1st!!! and I assume he plans on clearing the coast sooner or later. This should be interesting. I've never heard of anyone invading so quick except in those games where Japan is allowed to invade everything on turn one. But this is a historical first turn. (ie. we let the computer play turn one). So its a lot harder for Japan. AAR's from both sides of view are running.

[John 3rd]

Greg,
Sounds interesting.  Haven't seen the notes within the AARs and since YOU had a snow day, I bet you got a lot done!  Will go and see...
J
 

[kaleun]

Halsey invaded north Oz in 42, and attacked and occupied Western Oz in Jan 43. He took Perth and attacked Albany. Only the timely arrival of an Aussie division from India (that had been in transit before the invasion) and another division from SIdney prevented the fall of ALbany. Now in February I have retaken Perth, and am pushing north from Albany.
He is pushing south towards Daly Waters though.

[Sneer]

invading is easy - taking north Oz too
keeping it secure with rest of empire is much more difficult especially later in 43 and 44
for me there is negative value of such move - it ties too much precious assets

[Nikademus]

I'm curious of late........

How many Divisions and/or Division equivilents do players on average have playing as Japan. Even playing a conventional, somewhat conservative game, I found myself (as Japan) stretched for finding the troops to secure objectives where you know there will be at least a div+ of enemy troops.

How many Div's do players use to invade Oz?