What is your favorite WWII plane?

[UndercoverNotChickenSalad]

Really dont care which is "best" since the question asked was "what is your FAVORITE" WW2 Aircraft.
 
Who'd ever guess asking a question like that at wargaming bbs would turn into a flamefest [8|]  2T, can't you tell when Paul is just trolling for trouble?  [8D]

[mdiehl]

But wasn't "Going straight and fast and not dogfighting" the very essence of energy fighters such as P-47? How is it any different from those planes? Again and again you hear "Maneuver bad, Energy good!" when P-47 is compared to more agile fighters. And the P-47 wasn't one of the greatest accelerating planes either. And yes, I agree that Me262 was an interceptor, not an air superiority fighter. As an interceptor its speed and firepower made it excellent for bomber killing. Getting away with it and landing in the enviorment of late 44/45 was the difficult thing.

Going straight and fast was important except when too fast meant that you had to slow down to effectively hit anything. One of the problems 262 drivers had was that in their initial pass (not slowing down when turning to re-engage but their FIRST PASS) they had as much trouble with deflection shooting as the B-17 defensive gunners had.

With an ME-262 coming in at close to its top speed, you're looking at closing rates of around 300mph (figuring the 262 to be going around 500mph and the B17 generously given 200 mph). That's a closing rate of 440 feet/sec, assuming that the 262 closes on the bombers from six o'clock. Even with rockets, that closing speed was at best a "spray and pray" situation, since the critical radius for most shoot downs was around 300-400 feet.

Engaging B-17s with cannons meant that the 262 had to slow down to speeds where piston engined aircraft could have at them.

The ME262 was a wondrous fast aircraft. A big problem was that its weapons were pre-jet weapons. If the 262 could have been armed with any kind of self-guiding missile it would have been a really effective fighter or interceptor. As it stands, it was the first production line jet, and that's about all it was.

Nice looking jet too, if you don't mind the Star Trek warp-nacelles hanging under each wing.

[hawker]

Dont forget Me-236, rocket propelled fighter[8D]

Germans invented Ground to air missiles also.
That technique was so ahead of its time[;)]

[Rune Iversen]

ORIGINAL: hawker

Dont forget Me-236, rocket propelled fighter[8D]

Making up fictous planes?

Germans invented Ground to air missiles also.
That technique was so ahead of its time[;)]

[8|]

[mdiehl]

The ME-236 was not entirely fictitious. It was a pen and ink drawing of an up-conceptualized ME-163. So it had about the same development status as Wonder Woman's Invisible Jet.

The Germans also invented a variety of pickled cabbage. Their pickled cabbage and their surface to air missile programs were equally effective at downing US bombers.

[Rainerle]

ORIGINAL: hawker

Dont forget Me-236, rocket propelled fighter[8D]

Germans invented Ground to air missiles also.
That technique was so ahead of its time[;)]

You probably juggled the numbers and mean Me-263, developed out of Me-163 by Lippisch.
There never was Me-236, not even ink&paper (source H. Nowarra: Die deutsche Luftrüstung)

[hawker]

Sorry,my mistake.
Me-163 was operational but 263 was only prototype i think.

[.50Kerry]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

The ME-236 was not entirely fictitious. It was a pen and ink drawing of an up-conceptualized ME-163. So it had about the same development status as Wonder Woman's Invisible Jet.

The Germans also invented a variety of pickled cabbage. Their pickled cabbage and their surface to air missile programs were equally effective at downing US bombers.

I'd argue Sauerkraut would have been more effective....guys died in the bomber crews from ruptured intestines due to gas or so says "dirty little secrets of ww2".....

now had the german bottle rockets has sauerkraut warheads we'd have been doubly in trouble.....

regards,
sven

IS3 ARE BEST TANK EVAH it ARE!

[mdiehl]

I figure a large clay pot full of sauerkraut dropped from a fast moving ME262 in front of a B-17 bomber stream would have at least as much of a chance of hitting and disabling a B-17 as any of the (famously absent) rumoured 3rd Reich unguided "SAMs."

[Rainerle]

ORIGINAL: ezz

Well said...

except of course the Breda 88 really was crap[;)]

Hi, do you know a source for that story ??? I'd like to read how that came to pass.

[jimi3]

There's (almost) no more fun than a P-51 [;)]
 

[wesy]

To be contrarian - Ki84 Hayate ("Frank" in Allied nomenclature)

[Twotribes]

The japanese had some pretty aircraft too, I am just not as familiar with them.

[Sardonic]

You cant convince Mdiehl of anything. He thinks the USA won WW2 singlehanded.
He also has an answer for anything. It is best to ignore him.

[Sardonic]

ORIGINAL: .50Kerry

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

The ME-236 was not entirely fictitious. It was a pen and ink drawing of an up-conceptualized ME-163. So it had about the same development status as Wonder Woman's Invisible Jet.

The Germans also invented a variety of pickled cabbage. Their pickled cabbage and their surface to air missile programs were equally effective at downing US bombers.

I'd argue Sauerkraut would have been more effective....guys died in the bomber crews from ruptured intestines due to gas or so says "dirty little secrets of ww2".....

now had the german bottle rockets has sauerkraut warheads we'd have been doubly in trouble.....

regards,
sven

IS3 ARE BEST TANK EVAH it ARE!

Are you claiming that Dunnigan is wrong or lying?

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: Sardonic

You cant convince Mdiehl of anything. He thinks the USA won WW2 singlehanded.
He also has an answer for anything. It is best to ignore him.

You havent actually read what he has to say. He as I have acknowledged that with out the USSR and other allies the US would have had a hard time beating Germany. The arguement we have is the Soviet one, there are numerous people on this board that claim the Soviets won the war. This is no more true than the US won the war.

The reality is that the US and Britian provided VERY vital equipment and resources to the Soviets. Without which they would not have been driving the Germans back in 43 and in Berlin in 45.

Are you aware the Soviets didnt have the ability to build dependable comm wire? We provided it in massive amounts, without which the Soviet Artillery Corps would have been a hell of a lot less efficient or effective.

We provided the BULK of the light and medium trucks the soviets used and we provided TONS of other materials, aircraft and tanks.

The US originally planned to make 200 Infantry Divisions and we could have, how ever the failure of Germany in the Soviet Union enabled us to stay with just under 100 and maintain our man power in producing material and equipment for ourselves and our allies ( including the Soviets)

While the Soviets may have held and eventually beaten the Germans with out allied intervention I doubt it, just as I doubt if the Germans had beaten the Soviets that we could have easily invaded Europe. In either case it would have been years before the war ended.

[Sardonic]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

ORIGINAL: Sardonic

You cant convince Mdiehl of anything. He thinks the USA won WW2 singlehanded.
He also has an answer for anything. It is best to ignore him.

You havent actually read what he has to say. He as I have acknowledged that with out the USSR and other allies the US would have had a hard time beating Germany. The arguement we have is the Soviet one, there are numerous people on this board that claim the Soviets won the war. This is no more true than the US won the war.

The reality is that the US and Britian provided VERY vital equipment and resources to the Soviets. Without which they would not have been driving the Germans back in 43 and in Berlin in 45.

Are you aware the Soviets didnt have the ability to build dependable comm wire? We provided it in massive amounts, without which the Soviet Artillery Corps would have been a hell of a lot less efficient or effective.

We provided the BULK of the light and medium trucks the soviets used and we provided TONS of other materials, aircraft and tanks.

The US originally planned to make 200 Infantry Divisions and we could have, how ever the failure of Germany in the Soviet Union enabled us to stay with just under 100 and maintain our man power in producing material and equipment for ourselves and our allies ( including the Soviets)

While the Soviets may have held and eventually beaten the Germans with out allied intervention I doubt it, just as I doubt if the Germans had beaten the Soviets that we could have easily invaded Europe. In either case it would have been years before the war ended.

I have read far more of Mdiehl's USAfanboy posts than I care to.
My source on all things WW2 is James Dunnigan. If it contradicts Mdiehl, then in my opinion,
Mdiehl is WRONG. Your post above is an example of such contradiction.

I am aware that the Soviet Union fought the Germans to a standstill outside Moscow, with little or NO
US help. Yes, the Winter did help a bit. But the USA didnt create it.

[mdiehl]

You cant convince Mdiehl of anything. He thinks the USA won WW2 singlehanded.
He also has an answer for anything. It is best to ignore him.

Actually, I think the USA, UK+Commonwealths, and USSR won WW2. So much for Sardonic's claims to know wtf I think about anything. If pressed, I would go so far to assert that without the USSR in the fight, the US and Britain could have knocked Germany out of Africa, the Atlantic, Norway, and pretty much any island in the Mediterranean, and then waited until the right moment to nuke Berlin. So without the USSR we're looking at something like a "negotiated settlement." IMO.

In the PTO, the actual events speak for themselves.

Hey Chit... Sardonic. Yer not authorized to be my agent, so just for the record when you claim to know what I think about anything, yer talking off the top of your head. Like most Axis Fanboys, you have a habit of inventing statements that you wish I would make, rather than the statements that I have actually made.

[Sardonic]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

You cant convince Mdiehl of anything. He thinks the USA won WW2 singlehanded.
He also has an answer for anything. It is best to ignore him.

Actually, I think the USA, UK+Commonwealths, and USSR won WW2. So much for Sardonic's claims to know wtf I think about anything. If pressed, I would go so far to assert that without the USSR in the fight, the US and Britain could have knocked Germany out of Africa, the Atlantic, Norway, and pretty much any island in the Mediterranean, and then waited until the right moment to nuke Berlin. So without the USSR we're looking at something like a "negotiated settlement." IMO.

In the PTO, the actual events speak for themselves.

Hey Chit... Sardonic. Yer not authorized to be my agent, so just for the record when you claim to know what I think about anything, yer talking off the top of your head. Like most Axis Fanboys, you have a habit of inventing statements that you wish I would make, rather than the statements that I have actually made.

I dont recall offering anything more than an opinion. It is unchanged, regardless of your protests.
After reading in excess of 100+ of your posts on various forums, there can be only one conclusion.
I posted it above.

[mdiehl]

I dont recall offering anything more than an opinion. It is unchanged, regardless of your protests. After reading in excess of 100+ of your posts on various forums, there can be only one conclusion. I posted it above.

Chittles, you are not authorized to represent my opinion on anything. I don't give a toot about your opinion, all I am suggesting is that you not attribute your opinions to me. So when you say "mdiehl believes..X." you are only saying "for the moment, because it is rhetorically convenient, Sardonic really wishes that mdiehl would say something like ..X."

If you continue, you invite retaliation in kind -- something of the form of "Sardonic truly believes that the world would be better if the Third Reich had won, and he truly believes they would have won if the West had not cheated by sabotaging their special secret program for manufacturing Galaxy Class Starships." The game you are playing is a stupid rhetorical sleight-of-hand that invites nothing but rancor.

If you really want a dirtfight, let's have this conversation in the Saloon so that I can talk to you in the fashion you've earned.

If you want to debate something about WW2 based on actual facts, I'm game. As ever, if anyone really wants to know what I think about anything in particular, all they have to do is to ask me.