PzB vs Wobbly - Clash of Steel

[PzB74]

Cunning Plan # 2

The Taiho Raider Group will attempt to intercept enemy convoys between Marcus and Wake Islands.

The risk is that Andy got carriers in the area or have put his bombers on Wake on naval attack = RIP!
The benefits is a lot of easy kills and forcing Andy to protect his convoys, diverting resources from other operations.

We have performed reasonable pre-operational recon from our seaplane tender and seaplane sub.
No enemy carriers should be around as they're heading for the Bonins. The rest have gone to PH; I think! [;)]

[Honda]

I like cunning plan #1[:)]

[PzB74]

Cunning Plan # 2 was most cunning [:D]

Some 20 enemy ships were hit by our air strikes today! [:D]
We lost 100 naval bombers to 29 enemy CAP fighters over Marcus [:o]
In return we put a torpedo in a cve... That's the price we usually have to pay for such insolence [;)]

Andy can no longer feel safe in Marcus Island without having a sizeable CAP and his supply train is at
risk without carrier support. Sending un-escorted transports is expensive all over the map!

After telling Andy about how I was planning to reduce my training of air units in China he sent the following
reply: "I am not bothered now you train em I will shoot em down or more likely fry them on the ground !!!"

Not very grateful at all, so I'm filling my training camps up with fresh recruits again!

Not sent more than the replay to Andy, need some time to prepare the next turn.
Now bedtime!

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 02/08/45

Air Combat

Day Air attack on Tavoy , at 28,37

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67 Peggy: 1 destroyed
Ki-46-III Dinah: 1 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported

Airbase hits 15
Airbase supply hits 6
Runway hits 38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Rangoon , at 29,34

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 29

No Allied losses
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amazing how 10 Hellcats can attacks 137 of our fighters and shoot down 9 for the loss of 8...

Day Air attack on Bonin , at 65,52

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 31
N1K1-J George x 30
J2M Jack x 58
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 7
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 11

Allied aircraft
F6F-5N Hellcat x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 2 destroyed
J2M Jack: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5N Hellcat: 8 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why I need training camps # 1

Day Air attack on Iwo Jima , at 63,53

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 14
J2M Jack x 52

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 20
F6F Hellcat x 5
F4U-1 Corsair x 14
F4U-1D Corsair x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 12 destroyed
J2M Jack: 47 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why I need training camps # 2

Day Air attack on Iwo Jima , at 63,53

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 7
N1K1-J George x 8

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 18
F6F Hellcat x 11
F4U-1D Corsair x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 7 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 25 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Iwo Jima , at 63,53

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 3

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 127

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed
A6M5c Zeke: 3 destroyed
J2M Jack: 12 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 9 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
163 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 21
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 80
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cunning Plan # 1

Why I need training camps # 3, 4, 5 and 6

Our first cunning plan worked to an extent: The Allied Uber CAP of 29 fighters shot down
100 bombers.... [8|] It's insane, but we know this. Our only result was to torch an CVE! Even though all my
bombers were ordered in from 15k feet, quite a few betties launched torpedoes!??

Day Air attack on Marcus Island , at 75,56

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 46
G4M2e Betty x 19
P1Y Frances x 9
H8K Emily x 4

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 6
P-51D Mustang x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 32 destroyed
G4M2e Betty: 12 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 5 damaged
P-51D Mustang: 16 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
1 x G4M2e Betty ohka bombing <- So these Betties can only be used to Ohka bombing - which doesn't work...
2 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
2 x G4M2e Betty ohka bombing
2 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
2 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G4M2e Betty ohka bombing
1 x G4M2e Betty ohka bombing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why I need training camps # xxx

Day Air attack on Marcus Island , at 75,56

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 91
P1Y Frances x 52

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 3
P-51D Mustang x 11

Japanese aircraft losses [8|]
G4M2 Betty: 28 destroyed, 35 damaged
P1Y Frances: 22 destroyed, 8 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 damaged
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Prince William, Torpedo hits 1, on fire [:)]

Port hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
8 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
7 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
10 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
12 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
14 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
8 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
7 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
4 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
2 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
1 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
1 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cunning Plan # 2

Day Air attack on 1st Australian Brigade, at 27,40

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67 Peggy x 9

No Japanese losses
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st Australian Brigade, at 27,40

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67 Peggy x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
13 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st Australian Brigade, at 27,40

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67 Peggy x 46

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
13 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Iwo Jima at 63,53

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 3

Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 2

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Tamishima Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Iwo Jima at 63,53

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 3

Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Ryuzan Maru
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We had a FIELD DAY against enemy shipping today and Cunning Plan # 2 worked splendidly! [8D]
Some 76 strike ac attacked enemy shipping today!

AM strikes:

Day Air attack on TF at 78,59

Japanese aircraft
B7A Grace x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A Grace: 2 destroyed, 13 damaged

Allied Ships
LST LST-393, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-778, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-272, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DMS Forrest, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*
LST LST-885, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 78,59

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 3
D4Y Judy x 17
B7A Grace x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged
B7A Grace: 5 damaged

Allied Ships
LST LST-748
LST LST-277
LST LST-456
LST LST-745
LST LST-885, on fire, heavy damage
LST LST-744
LST LST-737, Bomb hits 1, on fire
LST LST-353, Bomb hits 2, on fire
LST LST-458
LST LST-749, Bomb hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 81,60

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
TK Bahrein
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PM strike:

Day Air attack on TF at 81,60

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 8
B7A Grace x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
B7A Grace: 7 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Kansan, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Eagle, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AK Elihu Thomson
LCI(R) LCS(L)-86
AK Caswell, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Oberon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 81,62

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied Ships
TK Shikellamy
TK Panda
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Todays cunning plan bonus: An undefended convoy east of Java is devastated!! [8D]

Day Air attack on TF at 24,58

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 16
P1Y Frances x 5
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged
P1Y Frances: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Edwin C. Musick, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AK Jacob S. Mansfield
AK James H. Lane
AK Tuscana, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK James Devereux
AK I. N. Van Nuys, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK James M. Clements, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Allied ground losses:
126 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These kamis were effective to say the least!!

Day Air attack on TF at 24,58

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67 Peggy x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67 Peggy: 17 destroyed

Allied Ships
AK James J.O. Kelly, Kamikaze hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Cornelius Vanderbilt, Kamikaze hits 1, on fire
AK Floyd B. Olson, Kamikaze hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Jeremiah M. Daily, Kamikaze hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
103 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 24,58

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 11
P1Y Frances x 2
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 11 damaged
P1Y Frances: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Auriga
AK Jacob S. Mansfield, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TK William H. Berg
AK Edwin C. Musick, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
61 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Bonin at 65,52

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 21
N1K1-J George x 3
J2M Jack x 40
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 10
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 8

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M Jack: 1 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 8 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ca 5-6 Oz/US divisions and 5-6 tank units and div brigade size units are marching north!
More are assumed to be following suit.

Ground combat at 27,40

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 7704 troops, 171 guns, 96 vehicles, Assault Value = 2724

Defending force 168 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 5

Allied max assault: 160 - adjusted assault: 38

Japanese max defense: 4 - adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 38 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
15 casualties reported

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Iwo Jima

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 6835 troops, 169 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1218

Defending force 104076 troops, 722 guns, 507 vehicles, Assault Value = 1624

Japanese ground losses:
78 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The least cunning plan...

[Nemo121]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes... It sounds solid and a few 800 Kg bombs through the decks of damaged carriers would be a tremendous boost.

[Japanese_Spirit]

This would indeed be a good morale blow to the Allied Command and show them that their arrogance has cost them. [:D]

Say, how does this "training" in China thing work? Do you just bomb Andy's bases or does he retaliate with fighters or do you forces really do "actual" training?

Anyway, let us see what the next results reveal.......>.>

[PzB74]

'Training' is simply attacking Chinese air bases with my bombers and fighters.
Since the Chinese bases are isolated and defenseless this provides a rather limitless training potential.

You can consider it gamey if you don't think Japan should receive this many trained pilots.
Basically I would agree, but the current A2A model is so bloody that ac and pilot losses makes it impossible to
fight the Allies without training more cannon fodder... [8|]

Much the same as with the kamikazes: they cannot penetrate the Allied CAP since it's 99% bullet proof. Just see how 30 US fighters could shoot
down 100 of my bombers in yesterdays post. The only way to make kamikazes work is to assign high altitude Zeke's that can fly above the max altitude of most Allied carrier fighters.

Both are results of the A2A model and requires counter-measures to make the game playable.
I agree that moderation is needed and has therefore limited my use of high altitude kamikaze attacks. Also offered to reduce the amount
of 'ground attack training'. We'll see how that story ends.

Cause & Effect - as always [:)]

[Japanese_Spirit]

ORIGINAL: PzB

'Training' is simply attacking Chinese air bases with my bombers and fighters.
Since the Chinese bases are isolated and defenseless this provides a rather limitless training potential.

You can consider it gamey if you don't think Japan should receive this many trained pilots.
Basically I would agree, but the current A2A model is so bloody that ac and pilot losses makes it impossible to
fight the Allies without training more cannon fodder... [8|]

Much the same as with the kamikazes: they cannot penetrate the Allied CAP since it's 99% bullet proof. Just see how 30 US fighters could shoot
down 100 of my bombers in yesterdays post. The only way to make kamikazes work is to assign high altitude Zeke's that can fly above the max altitude of most Allied carrier fighters.

Both are results of the A2A model and requires counter-measures to make the game playable.
I agree that moderation is needed and has therefore limited my use of high altitude kamikaze attacks. Also offered to reduce the amount
of 'ground attack training'. We'll see how that story ends.

Cause & Effect - as always [:)]

Ah I see now. Thanks for the explanation my good sir. [;)]

Banzai on to victory! [:D]

[Nikademus]

you GAMER you! [:'(]

[fcam1387]

How many carriers do you usually put in your convoy raiding groups? Do you do this often? I am playing as the Japs in the 1943 campaign and am looking at a way to launch some offensives of my own. Where would be a good place to intercept his convoys without the risk of being caught by surprise from a massive CV intercept group?
&nbsp;
Thanks

[Vetamur]

He only puts one now..because he only has one...

[Aterpa]

ORIGINAL: PzB

1 x G4M2e Betty ohka bombing <- So these Betties can only be used to Ohka bombing - which doesn't work...

Maybe your G4M2e don't hit anything because they don't carry any Ohka? As far as I remember Ohka production starts in January 1945 in Tokyo with only 9 per month. If Okha availabity is tracked by the game it could be the case that all but 9 G4M2e per month have nothing to shot with and therefore nothing to hit with!

[Vetamur]

as suggested in another thread..the best use of the G4M2e in this game seems to be as naval search.. The Ohkas cant hit and the G4M2es dont do any real damage as a kamikaze for some reason..
&nbsp;
Its a shame.. although the mother ship was almost always lost, the success rate of the Ohka wasnt that bad compared to other attacks being carried out at the time..
&nbsp;
As for the production rate, it was higher than 9 a month..much higher.&nbsp; Between March and and the end of April 1945 at least 48 were launched or at least attached to Betties that got shot down. Thats 12 a month, and they hadnt used all they had. By the end of the war 150 had been built at Yokosuka and 600 had been built at Kasumigaura (neither of which is in Tokyo..).&nbsp;

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Aterpa

ORIGINAL: PzB

1 x G4M2e Betty ohka bombing <- So these Betties can only be used to Ohka bombing - which doesn't work...

Maybe your G4M2e don't hit anything because they don't carry any Ohka? As far as I remember Ohka production starts in January 1945 in Tokyo with only 9 per month. If Okha availabity is tracked by the game it could be the case that all but 9 G4M2e per month have nothing to shot with and therefore nothing to hit with!

Good point!

PzB, how many Ohkas are in your pool (are Ohkas in the pool at all)?

Maybe you'll need to have a number of Ohkas available in the pool that match the number of G4M2e in air units on map (I think there're two Ohka units, one hikotai and one sentai, with 75 planes altogether).

Thus, if you have less than 75 Ohkas available (and this should be the case if you did not expand the Ohka factory at Tokyo), code may assume that there're not enough Ohkas (as they're the only "ammunition" in the game that is actually produced in a real sense, this could make some sense as there would be no reason to have their production on-map otherwise).

I know that there is only a faint hope that this is actually the reason for Ohkas not working. But we all know that the WITP code has some aspects that are not explained in the manual.

[PzB74]

Unfortunately there is no Ohka pool and no visual ohka factory!
It seems like only a very few Ohkas will launch at a time, 1-2-3 at max. I've been speculating whether this reflects the availability
of ohkas. Mute matter as those who launch never hit anything.

I used supply training to train my G4M2e Betty's to ca 65 exp before testing them. Could be that Betty exp levels reflect ohka hit accuracy.
1/50 should still have managed to hit a target - but they don't. So absolutely no use to wait for them I'm afraid. I will use supply trainining and get
80-90 exp G4M2e and try them on easy targets. Last attempt to see if they CAN hit anything.

Think the code needs to be re-written both in terms of hit probability, ohka factories and ohka missile production.

[Honda]

Don't bother. Ohka is as broken as they come. I even tested them with a production of 9000 and still no hits, so lack of them is not an issue. My last ditch efforts to fix it are centerd around making Ohka a GP bomb instead of what it is (RPM or something) or removing it from its slot in the editor. Will have results in a couple of hours. The good news for you PzB is that even if it should work, you don't have to worry your head 'cause yours are still as broken as they were when you bombed PH in '41...[8|]

[PzB74]

Giving us a useless Ohka bomber is criminal&nbsp;[:(]
Same scale as the US torps in the beginning of the war....

Well, guess we have to fight on with what we got. Sent a turn late to Andy today.
Loading the armoured division and support division at Manila. Will unload at Camhranh Bay in a week or so.

[Nemo121]

I conducted tests with the Ohka&nbsp; a while back.
&nbsp;
Essentially the Ohka weapons SLOT has hard code associated with it which ensures that ANY plane type equipped with that weapon slot will only fly about 10% of available sorties. So, if you put a 500 Kg bomb in the Ohka slot and equip Vals with it then out of 30 Vals which could fly a mission only 2 do. Same logic applies to the G4M2es. It is hard code and there's nothing you can do about it.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
So, given that the Ohka bomber is probably pretty useless as an attack bomber what CAN you use it for? Not for kamikaze attacks - the game is too stupid to realise that the bomber is carrying a devastating Ohka and so vastly under-rates the damage done. The best use for your Ohka bombers is to divide the unit into 3 groups and then set each of them on 100% naval search. If you do this you will get the occasional Ohka bomb launched as part of the naval search/ opportunistic attack model.
&nbsp;
You will get the occasional Ohka hit if you do this. Close to reality? No but it is, based on my testing, the best you are going to do - plus it will allow you to save the rest of your Bettys for actual strikes.

[PzB74]

What genious came up with the idea that only 10% of ac will fly sorties&nbsp;[&:]&nbsp;[:D]
Think I'll convert all GM42e factories to the GM42 again. Got 110 in the pools and the last unit will arrive shortly.

Does anyone know what's wrong with the accuracy settings for the Ohka since close to no living being has ever witnessed one hitting its target?
This Ohka isn't a big deal, but the Jap player need it and it's a disappointment that it doesn't work. Special weapons may be difficult to program,
but they attract a lot of attention and players to the game.

[Nemo121]

PzB,
&nbsp;
Accuracy of the Ohka is terrible. I had to fiddle around with an awful lot of settings to get a hit rate of 6% ( when level bombing with no FlAK opposition at 6000 feet) from the PGMs in my mod. To be fair though accuracy of PGMs increases approximately four-fold when attacking ported ships. It should be noted that these figures are well below what the Germans got with the SD-1400&nbsp; and Hs-293 but still massively superior to what you can get with the Ohka.
&nbsp;
if you are adamant that you want to use the G4M2e for actual bombing raids you are several times more likely to get a hit if you use them for port attacks as, obviously, the ships are not manoeuvring while in port.
&nbsp;
FWIW in testing I found the accuracy of the Ohka to be slightly under 2% ( about twice the hit rate of dumb unguided bombs and about 1/3rd of the maximum I was able to achieve through graduated testing) when level bombing from 6000 feet.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
Overall though the Ohka is F'ed, its modelling is F'ed and it is a blind alley for Japanese players. I removed it from my mod because of its terrible performance. Hell, I even tried creating late-45 Japanese Coastal Defence units which mounted Ohkas instead of costal defence guns and removed them after testing because the CD guns were actually more effective.

[PicketLine]

In the type field change the Okha to a torpedo, set its range to 40 K ( about 22.73 miles )
With accuracy of 40 and G4M2e group at Exp 60; if you test this against a carrier group at sea without any cap the Okha will hit with an accuracy of once every 10 sorties and it will act as a piloted missile from 22 miles away.
This also has the benefit of eliminating all the variables but crew quality.
The Okha will always launch from 22 miles.
The G4M2e will not be affected by AAA and can only be stopped by cap.