To Kill a Sub

[RUPD3658]

Aside from the 20 or so sunk at Manilla on Day 1 I have had some sucess against Allied subs. It is currently 12-1-43 and aside from those sunk at Manilla I have sunk 20 with DCs, 11 by AC, and 1 with a mine.

I have had the more success with convoy escorts attacking and sinking subs than with ASW TFs.

[marky]

[X(]


nice job

more like the Sunken Service now [:(]

[RUPD3658]

Page 2:

[marky]

[X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(]

[RUPD3658]

Before you declare me a sub killing god take a look at what KDonovan did to me. Note the high losses due to 4E bombers:

23 lost to DC, 28 to AC (27 to 4E bombers) and 1 to a mine.

We are playing stock scn 15 if I did not mention this before.

[RUPD3658]

page 2:

[marky]

impressive [:'(]

[YankeeAirRat]

RUP,
 
So 31 Allied subs were killed by Japanese escorts in your game. That is ahead of the real war lost patrols of 25 US subs alone by 01DEC43. You got some very good luck with the air raid against Manila that got those 20 submarines which were tied up at Cavite.

[marky]

indeeed, those poor boats never even had a chance to sink those yellah bastudz![:D]

[RUPD3658]

Only 20 were destroyed with DC and about 12 of these were by convoy escort ships. The other 8 were sunk by ASW TFs and 11 were sunk by aircraft.

To be honest, I only averaged a sub killed a month until mid 43 when I started using escorted convoys and KDonovan massed subs around Wake (AC made short work of them). Prior to using escorted convoys I was losing a ship a day.

I lost most of my subs evacuating units from PM and Rabaul. There were turns where I would lose 2-3 subs a day to AC. Yet another reason to fear the B-24.

I attacked Manilla with the KB on turn 1 because I feared the subs. Looking back (and discovering that escorted convoys are safe) I don't think this was the best use of the KB. I will learn from this in my next PBEM.

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

This is getting to be a real sore spot for me. Playing Allies in very late 42. I have about a 6 or 7 hex area I know to be rich in Japanese submarine targets. I spot at least 2 or 3 everyday. I have over 120 bombers, with experience in the high 70s on naval search and ASW at 2000 feet. I also have 3 Cat squadrons flying naval search at 5,000-7,000 feet....tons of supply large AF. After 5 turns I have gotten ZERO attacks, much less hits.

I bet in a month I don't get 3 attacks on subs in the entire theater, virtually never a hit and certainly never a kill.[:@]

What can I realistically do given the game mechanics to get a better outcome [&:]

Sincerely,
One Frustrated Sub Killer

If it's anything like my experience trying to down US subs, they will pretty much behave that way for either the first month of the war, or they get 80 experience or higher.

[niceguy2005]

I am starting to think a distinction should be made. It appears that by mid-43 or 44 the Allies have considerably better ASW weapons. My question is what can they do from mid 42 through mid 43 about subs. Dive bombers aren't much of an option because what few LBA dive bombers I get aren't stationed in the areas the subs are located. I can't see reworking my entire defensive scheme to make them available either.

Historically weren't tactical level bombers like A-20s and B-25s used in the anti-sub role, along with Cats of course? I wonder if in the game DBs do well because they attack from an altitude of 200 feet. Has anyone tried setting LBA to 100 feet?

Again, I'm not really expecting to sink subs all the time, but a few actual attacks would be nice. So far my pilots have just been overflying them and waving.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

I am starting to think a distinction should be made. It appears that by mid-43 or 44 the Allies have considerably better ASW weapons. My question is what can they do from mid 42 through mid 43 about subs. Dive bombers aren't much of an option because what few LBA dive bombers I get aren't stationed in the areas the subs are located. I can't see reworking my entire defensive scheme to make them available either.

Historically weren't tactical level bombers like A-20s and B-25s used in the anti-sub role, along with Cats of course? I wonder if in the game DBs do well because they attack from an altitude of 200 feet. Has anyone tried setting LBA to 100 feet?

Again, I'm not really expecting to sink subs all the time, but a few actual attacks would be nice. So far my pilots have just been overflying them and waving.

Historically, TBFs were certainly used (often with a FIDO homing torp, but course that wasn't available until a bit later than '43, (iirc) and not at all in the game.)

[KDonovan]

I am starting to think a distinction should be made. It appears that by mid-43 or 44 the Allies have considerably better ASW weapons. My question is what can they do from mid 42 through mid 43 about subs. Dive bombers aren't much of an option because what few LBA dive bombers I get aren't stationed in the areas the subs are located. I can't see reworking my entire defensive scheme to make them available either.

Historically weren't tactical level bombers like A-20s and B-25s used in the anti-sub role, along with Cats of course? I wonder if in the game DBs do well because they attack from an altitude of 200 feet. Has anyone tried setting LBA to 100 feet?

Again, I'm not really expecting to sink subs all the time, but a few actual attacks would be nice. So far my pilots have just been overflying them and waving.

in 1942-43 why use only aircraft?? You should be basing MSW/PG/SC/DD's at each base in the Central, South Pacific. When a sub is spotted by your planes. Send in the ASW TF groups to take them out. Most of my sub kills (as the Allies) came from DC's before 1943.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: KDonovan

I am starting to think a distinction should be made. It appears that by mid-43 or 44 the Allies have considerably better ASW weapons. My question is what can they do from mid 42 through mid 43 about subs. Dive bombers aren't much of an option because what few LBA dive bombers I get aren't stationed in the areas the subs are located. I can't see reworking my entire defensive scheme to make them available either.

Historically weren't tactical level bombers like A-20s and B-25s used in the anti-sub role, along with Cats of course? I wonder if in the game DBs do well because they attack from an altitude of 200 feet. Has anyone tried setting LBA to 100 feet?

Again, I'm not really expecting to sink subs all the time, but a few actual attacks would be nice. So far my pilots have just been overflying them and waving.

in 1942-43 why use only aircraft?? You should be basing MSW/PG/SC/DD's at each base in the Central, South Pacific. When a sub is spotted by your planes. Send in the ASW TF groups to take them out. Most of my sub kills (as the Allies) came from DC's before 1943.

As Allies most of my kills are done by ASW ships. Mostly by DDs as I have plenty of them all the way through the game. Planes are only needed to spot them.

As Japanese half of my kills are credited to Helens or Sallies. 80+ exp. on 6000 ft naval search 100% 8 hexes. Never had a problem with that. They are so succesful that I agreed on a houserule of only 12 Helens or Sallies on naval search at a base.

[niceguy2005]

Yes, I find Japanese aerial ASW to be highly effective, either DBs or LBs.

Maybe it is all in pilot exp. Maybe 80+ is the magic number. Japan has a ready made training ground in China for training bombers that the US LBA does not have.

[YankeeAirRat]

According to what I have read about WW2 ASW combat. In the Pacific theater the following aircraft were used by the Allies through out the war.
 
US:

• B-18 Bolo
• PV-1 Ventura
• PV-2 Harpoon
• PBY Catalina
• PB4Y-1 Liberator
• PBM Mariner
• TBD Devastators
• SBD Dauntless
• TBF/M Avenger
• J2F Duck
• JRF Goose
• FM-1 Wildcat
• FM-2 Wildcat
• OS2U Kingfisher
• J4F Widgeon-Primarly a USCG ASW aircraft

 
UK:

• Lockheed Hudson
• Avro Anson
• De Havilland Mosquito
• Bristol Beaufighters
• Bristol Beaufort
• Fairey Swordfish

 
 
The B-25's from what I have read were used for a limited time in the months just after Pearl Harbor in both the Hawaiian Islands, Alaska, and Contential US as ASW aircraft until enough PBY's and PV-1's were available for use. Also from the US had a variety of civilian aircraft as part of a USAAF Auxillary called Civilian Air Patrol, http://www.cap.gov/visitors/about/our_history.cfm, to go and patrol the Contential United States.