Singapore Bound Convoy and units (Dec 41)

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el cid again
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Singapore Bound Convoy and units (Dec 41)

Post by el cid again »

Convoy WS 12 ZM departed Durban South Africa 24 Dec bound for Aden and Singapore (it split - the Singapore part becoming DM 1). Bound for Singapore were 53 Brigade, 6 Heavy AA, 35 Light AA, 85 AT Regiments, and four squadrons of Hurricanes (17, 135, 136 and 232 RAF).

Quick check indicates that we have all these units with Hurricane IIb - which seems right. However,
all arrive at Aden. One arrives at Aden on the day it really arrived in Singapore - the others arrive 8 days AFTER they arrived at Singapore (which was 13 January 1942).

I am going to have these air units appear at Aden in Level 5 - On January 8 ( time enough to transfer if you wish )

and in Level 6 they will appear at Capetown (which isn't in Level 5) on Dec 22

while in Level 7 they will appear at Durban (which isn't in Level 5 or 6) on Dec 23 (permitting them to load).

Need to check the brigade and regiments - and give them ships to carry them!
el cid again
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RE: Singapore Bound Convoy and units (Dec 41)

Post by el cid again »

I found the HAA and LAA units in our data set - appearing at start at Aden -

but not the 53rd Brigade

nor a 54th Brigade which seems also to have been en route to Singapore when the war began.

In no version of WITP do I see either unit.

Any data from anyone?

Tentatively we will be adding 53rd at the same location/time as the rest of the units on the convoy - unless it has some other name or I have missed it. Alphanumeric computer search is not producing it as a unit or as a reinforcement in anyone's version of WITP.
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Sneer
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RE: Singapore Bound Convoy and units (Dec 41)

Post by Sneer »

[font="arial"]commanding officer CLB Duke[/font][/align] [font="arial"]1st line territional army[/font][/align] [font="arial"]former 163 inf bde - converted 18th sep 39 [/font][/align] [font="arial"]formed[/font][/align] [font="arial"]probably part of 18th inf div  / from 30th sep 39 to 23 dec 41 / what means it was divided and sent to singapore in parts [/font][/align] [font="arial"]units[/font][/align] [font="arial"]5th royal norfolk rgt[/font][/align] [font="arial"]6th royal norfolk bde[/font][/align] [font="arial"]2nd cambridgeshire rgt[/font][/align] [font="arial"] i hope it is ok :-)[/font][/align]
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Sneer
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to all interested

Post by Sneer »

[font="arial"] The Singapore convoys [center]Image[/center] This are the order of battles for all Singapore-convoys between December 1941 and February 1942. Initially, I thought this would be a simple job searching together pieces of info to make a list of all ships, together with the dates of departure and arrival. Not surprisingly, this proved to be troublesome, as many flaws in sources had to be sorted out, checked, crossreferenced and added to the list. This is the list I ultimately made, which does not necessarily mean it is entirely corrected. I welcome any correction, comment or addition. BM 9A

This convoy transported the first large troop reinforcement to the island. It left Bombay on December 21 1941 and arrived in Singapore on the 3rd of January without much delay or difficulty. Aboard was the 45th Indian infantry brigade. It departed Bombay on December 21 1941, and arrived in Singapore on January 3 1942. The order of battle for the convoy was as follows: [center] Merchants Devonshire British, 11.275 tons 1599 troops Lancashire British, 9.542 tons 1337 troops Ethiopia British, 5.574 tons 897 troops Varsova British, 4.691 tons 978 troops Rajula British, 8.478 tons 1166 troops[/center] [center] Escort CL HMS Glasgow Between December 21 and 25 CL HMAS Hobart from December 25 to Singapore CL HMS Dragon from December 30 to Singapore CL HMS Durban from December 30 to Singapore CL De Ruyter RNN, between January 1 and 2 through Sunda Strait CL Tromp RNN, between January 1 and 2 through Sunda Strait DD HMAS Vampire from December 30 to Singapore DD HMS Jupiter from January 2 1942 to Singapore DD HMS Encounter from January 2 1942 to Singapore DD Banckert RNN, between 1 and 2 January through Sunda Strait DD Piet Hein RNN, between 1 and 2 January through Sunda Strait PB HMIS Sonavati between 21 and 27 December PB Falmouth between 25 and 27 December[/center] [center]BM 9B [/center] [center]This was the follow-up convoy for BM-9A, and the ships of this formation carried the vehicles and stores for the 45th Indian infantry brigade. It departed Bombay on December 22 1941 and arrived in Singapore on January 6 1942.[/center] [center] Merchants Medina British, 3.962 tons 387 troops Risalder British, 5,.407 tons ) Motor transport Rajput British, 5.497 tons Motor transport Jalajaran British, 5.102 tons Motor transport Madura British, 8.975 tons Joined convoy with HMS Glasgow at sea Talma British, 10.000 tons 600 troops, detached with Greek CL Georgios Averoff for Colombo December 27 1941 as planned[/center] [center] Escort CL Georgios Averoff ( Greek ) Between December 22 and 27 CL HMS Glasgow Between December 27 and 31 CL HMS Danae from December 31 1941 to Singapore CL De Ruyter ( RNN, joined January 4, detached before arrival ) CL Tromp ( RNN, joined January 4, detached before arrival ) CL Java ( RNN, joined 31/12/41 but has to break off because of damage to one of the propellors ) DD HMS Electra from January 3 to Singapore DD HMS Express from January 3 to Singapore DD HMS Stronghold from January 4 to Singapore DD Banckert ( RNN, joined January 4, detached before arrival ) DD Piet Hein ( RNN, joined January 4, detached before arrival ) AM HMAS Burnie from January 5 to Singapore AM HMAS Goulburn from January 5 to Singapore[/center] [center]DM1 ( Ex- WS 12 ZM) [/center] [center]This convoy had quite an impressive cargo, as it not only transported the 53rd Infantry Brigade Group, 232 squadron RAF, 6th Heavy and 35th Light AA regiments and the 85th Anti-tank regiment, but also had fifty crated Hawker Hurricane fighters on board of 17, 135, 136 and 232 squadron RAF. The convoy departed Durban on December 24 as part of WS 12Z, and the Singapore-bound ships detached at sea. The American trooper Mount Vernon departed Mombasa with HMS Emerald on December 29, and joined at sea. The ships, now known as DM-1, departed the Addu Atoll on January 5 and arrived in Singapore on the 13th.[/center] [center] Merchants Narkunda British, 16.632 tons 1773 troops Aorangi British, 17.491 tons 2194 troops Sussex British, 11.063 tons 52 Hurricane fighters, 3.7-inch AA-guns and 14 troops Abbekerk Dutch, 7.906 tons Ammunition and 16 troops Mount Vernon American, 22.559 tons 221 officers and 4882 men of the 18th division[/center] [center] Escorts CA HMS Cornwall Until Colombo area CA HMS Exeter From January 5 to Singapore CL HMS Durban From January 9, but arrived ahead of convoy CL HMS Emerald ( F ) From January 29 to Singapore CL De Ruyter ( RNN, between January 10 and 12 ) CL Tromp ( RNN, between January 10 and 12 ) PB HMIS Jumna from January 5 to Singapore DD HMS Jupiter from January 10, but arrived ahead of convoy DD HMS Encounter from January 10 to Singapore DD HMAS Vampire from January 10 to Singapore DD Banckert ( RNN, between January 10 and 12 ) DD Piet Hein ( RNN, between January 10 and 12 )[/center] [center]BM 10 [/center] [center]BM-10 arrived in Singapore on January 25 1942 with the 44th Indian Infantry brigadegroup ( 6000 men ), vehicles and stores for the 18th division and carriers for the reconregiment. It had departed Bombay on January 8 1942.[/center] [center] Merchants Cap St. Jacques French, 8009 tons 716 troops and stores Talthybius British, 10.254 tons stores Islami British, 5.879 tons 964 troops and stores Rohna British, 8.602 tons 1188 troops and stores Ekma British, 5.108 tons 897 troops Takliwa British, 7.936 tons 980 troops and stores Jalakrishna British, 4.991 tons motor transport and stores Subadar British, 5.425 tons motor transport and stores Jalavihar British, 5.330 tons motor transport and stores Brittany British, 4.772 tons general cargo Loch Ranza British, 4.958 tons motor transport and stores Jalaratna British, 3.942 tons stores, departed Colombo 12/1/42 and joined at sea Silverlarch British, 5.064 tons stores, departed Colombo 12/1/42 and joined at sea Hosang British, 5.698 tons Joined January 20, carrying stores. Yuen Sang British, 3.229 tons Joined January 20, carrying stores Rochussen Dutch, 2.363 tons Joined January 22, detached Doerian Strait Hermelin Norwegian, 1.683 tons Joined January 22 Collingswood American, 5.101 tons Joined January 22[/center] [center] Escorts CA HMS Exeter From January 18 to Singapore CL HMS Caledon Between January 8 and 13 CL HMS Enterprise From January 13 to Singapore CL HMS Glasgow Between January 13 and 18 CL HMS Danae From January 18 to Singapore CL De Ruyter Between January 22 until Doerian Strait CL Tromp Between January 22 until Doerian Strait DD HMS Electra Between January 20 and 22 DD Stronghold Between January 20 and 22 PB HMIS Sutlej From January 14 to Singapore PB HMAS Yarra From January 20 to Singapore[/center] [center]MS 1[/center] [center]This convoy departed Melbourne on January 10, but it is currently unknown which units were transported to Singapore aboard the ships of this convoy. The ships marked with an * arrived in Singapore on February 1st.[/center] [center] Merchants City of Manchester * British, 8.917 tons   Derrymore * British, 4.799 tons   Java Dutch, 9.250 tons   Enggano Dutch, 5.412 tons   Gorgon * British, 3.533 tons   Pan Europe * Norwegian, 9.468 tons   Peisander British, 6.225 tons   Phrontis * Dutch, 6.181 tons   Tjikandi Dutch, 7.970 tons   Tjikarang Dutch, 9.505 tons   War Sirdar * British, 5.647 tons  [/center] [center] Escorts AMC HMAS Kanimbla Between January 10 and 28 CL HMAS Hobart Between January 26 and 31 DD HMS Stronghold Between January 28 and 31 DD HMS Tenedos Between January 28 and 31[/center] [center]MS 2 and MS 2A[/center] [center]This convoy originally consisted of the large liner Aquitania, which transported 3500 Australian troops ( 2/4th MG batallion, reinforcements for the 8th division ) to Singapore. However, by this time, the Japanese had complete control of the air over Singapore and the approaches to this port, and the naval authorities therefore found it to be wiser to transfer the troops aboard to smaller vessels. The Aquitania with her ocean escort, HMAS Canberra arrived in Ratai Bay on Sumatra on January 20. The troops were transferred to smaller KPM-steamers and a British ship, and the convoy departed Ratai Bay on January 21, now as MS 2A. The ships arrived unscathed in Singapore on January 24.[/center] [center]Until Ratai Bay[/center] [center] Merchants Aquitania British, 45.647 tons 3500 troops[/center] [center] Escorts CA HMAS Canberra Ocean escort CL Java ( RNN ) From January 18 DD Evertsen ( RNN ) From January 18 DD Van Nes ( RNN ) From January 18[/center] [center]Transfer in Ratai Bay to smaller ships[/center] [center] Cover force CA HMAS Canberra CL HMS Dragon DD HMAS Vampire DD HMS Express DD USS Stewart DD USS Barker DD Van Nes ( RNN ) PB USS Isabel PB Soemba ( RNN )[/center] [center]Ratai Bay to Singapore[/center] [center] Merchants Both Dutch, 2.660 tons Reael Dutch, 2.561 tons Reynst Dutch, 2.462 tons Van der Lijn Dutch, 2.464 tons Van Swoll Dutch, 2.156 tons Sloet van de Beele Dutch, 2.977 tons Taishan British, 3.174 tons[/center] [center] Escorts CA HMAS Canberra Detached north of Banka CL Java ( RNN )* From 21 to 24 January DD HMAS Vampire* From 21 to 24 January DD HMS Thanet* From 21 to 24 January DD Evertsen ( RNN ) Detached north of Banka DD Van Nes Detached north of Banka PB HMIS Jumna* From 21 to 24 January * These ships arrived with the convoy in Singapore[/center] [center]BM 11[/center] [center]BM-11 carried 5 light AA-batteries, 1 light tanksquadron and the 18th Division ( except the 53rd Brigade Group ), a total of 17.000 troops to Singapore. It had departed Bombay on January 19 1942 and arrived in Singapore on January 29 1942.[/center] [center] Merchants Empire Star British, 11.093 tons Motor transport Duchess of Bedford British, 20.123 tons 1955 troops Empress of Japan British, 26.032 tons 1981 troops USS Wakefield American, 22.559 tons 4479 troops USS West Point American, 23.179 tons 3250 troops[/center] [center] Escorts CA HMS Exeter From January 26 to Singapore CL HMS Dragon Between January 26 and 28 CL HMS Durban Between January 26 and 28 CL HMS Glasgow Between January 22 and 26 CL HMS Caledon Between January 19 and 22 DD HMS Thanet ??, arrived Singapore January 24 DD HMS Tenedos From January 24 DD HMS Express From January 24 DD HMS Electra From January 24 DD HMS Encounter From January 26[/center] [center]BM 12[/center] [center]BM-12 carried drafts for the 9th and 11th Divisions ( 3800 men ) and stores for the 18th Division to Singapore. The convoy departed Bombay on January 23 and arrived in Singapore on the 5th of the following month. It was also the first to lose a ship: the trooptransport Empress of Asia was hit by bombs from divebombers and had to be abandoned. Most troops aboard were picked up by escorting vessels ( HMAS Yarra especially distinguished herself ), but most of the equipment was unfortunately lost. [/center] [center] Merchants Empress of Asia British, 16.909 tons 2235 troops and stores Félix Roussèl French, 17.084 tons 157 troops and stores Plancius Dutch, 5.955 tons 987 troops and stores Devonshire British, 11.275 tons 1673 troops and stores City of Canterbury British, 8.331 tons 1053 troops[/center] [center] Escorts CA HMS Exeter Joined February 2, detached north of Banka CL HMS Danae Joined January 31, detached north of Banka CL HMS Emerald Between January 27 and 31 CL Java ( RNN ) Between January 31 and February 4, detached because of fuel shortage. DD HMS Encounter Joined ??, detached north of Banka DD HMAS Vampire Joined February 2 PB HMAS Yarra Joined February 1 PB HMIS Sutlej Joined February 1 PB HMS Falmouth Between January 26 and 27 AM HMAS Bendigo Joined north of Banka Strait AM HMAS Woolongong Joined north of Banka Strait[/center] [center]DM 2 ( Ex - WS 14 B )[/center] [center]DM-2 ( which departed Durban on January 13 ) was originally WS 14B, but the name was changed off Mombasa on January 19. It made rendez-vous with BM-12, after which the convoys merged at 01.05 N, 91.28 E. The ships of this convoy were rerouted to Batavia with one exception, the City of Canterbury joined BM-12 and arrived in Singapore. Aboard the ships were the Wing Headquarters and groundstaff for 3 fightersquadrons, the 77th heavy and 21st light AA regiments with their equipment, vehicles and stores for the 48th Light AA-regiment. The rerouted ships arrived in Batavia on February 3.[/center] [center] Merchants Warwick Castle British, 20.119 tons N/A Empress of Australia British, 21.860 tons N/A City of Pretoria British, 8.049 tons Motor transport Triolus British, 7.422 tons N/A Malancha British, 8.124 tons Motor transport City of Canterbury British, 8.331 tons 1053 troops Dunera British, 11.197 tons 1884 troops[/center] [center] Escorts* BB HMS Royal Sovereign Until January 26 (1100 hours) AMC HMS Ranchi Joined January 26 (1100 hours), detached January 28 (1300 hours) CA HMS Exeter From February 2 CL HMS Emerald Between January 28 and 31 CL Java ( RNN ) Between January 31 and February 4, detached because of fuel shortage. CL HMS Danae Joined January 31 DD HMAS Vampire Joined February 2 DD HMS Jupiter Joined February 2 PB HMAS Yarra Joined February 1 PB HMIS Sutlej Joined February 1[/center] [center]BM-13[/center] [center]The last of the Singapore convoys. Departed Bombay on February 13, but was recalled on February 17. I don't list her here as it never came close to reaching her destination. In addition, the convoys JS 1, JS 2 and MS 3 were apparently also originally bound for Singapore but also never reached their destination. [/center]
[/font][/align]
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Sneer
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RE: to all interested

Post by Sneer »

54th was second bde of 18th UK inf div
seems that we have both parts of 18th so there is no problem as they were not independent at that time
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Sneer
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RE: to all interested

Post by Sneer »

i don't find any data about 85th antitank rgt as being part of 18th
it might be independent
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RE: to all interested

Post by Mifune »

You can study convoy WS 12X for the journey from Halifax to Durban by those brigades. The "X" signified unofficial American participation of combat transport (since America was "neutral" at the time). The Ranger (CV-4) shared escort duty part of the way in the Atlantic. Here is a further breakdown of WS 12 and its various elements. "WS 12V - Formed Nov. 24 - 2 ships from Colombo to Singapore arriving Nov. 28. WS 12X - Formed Nov. 10 - 6 USN transports that embarked British troops at Halifax N.S. for Suez. Sailed via Trinidad with USN escort to arrive Cape Town on Dec. 9. Sailed with RN escort Dec. 13 for Bombay, arriving Dec. 27. WS 12Z - Formed Nov 13 - 16 ships divided into 3 parts in the Indian Ocean. WS 12ZA - 3 ships from WS 12Z for Suez, dispersing off Aden on Jan. 4-1942. WS 12ZB - 8 ships from WS 12Z for Bombay, arriving Jan 6-1942." Ships listed are transports they do not include escorts.
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el cid again
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RE: to all interested

Post by el cid again »

OK - we have the 4 air squadrons generally arriving sooner - the 2 AA regiments generally arriving later -
and the 18 th division also later - since it cannot appear before its last element does. It appears at Aden - a week before that last element arrived at Singapore - and you can send it wherever you want to. The only remaining issue is what is the AT unit status. I don't think we are doing AT regiments - do we have any at all? I think they are parts of brigades or divisions.
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RE: to all interested

Post by JeffroK »

53 Bde arrived in Singapore in time to see action on the mainland. The balance of the division arrived too late to serve on the mainland and only defended the island of Singapore. It would be a good excuse to create 2 units.
 
But if the player doesnt send them to Singapore you get an ahistorical result.
 
Maybe answered elsewhere, Can you bring  on as a reinforcement a divided unit, which allows them to be recombined at a later date?
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el cid again
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RE: to all interested

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: JeffK

53 Bde arrived in Singapore in time to see action on the mainland. The balance of the division arrived too late to serve on the mainland and only defended the island of Singapore. It would be a good excuse to create 2 units.

But if the player doesnt send them to Singapore you get an ahistorical result.

Maybe answered elsewhere, Can you bring  on as a reinforcement a divided unit, which allows them to be recombined at a later date?


Only by creating sub units can we divide a division - and in that case we would need to know all the parts of it - and use one slot for each (or create a "2 brigade division" which RHS treats as a "division brigade"). We need to know when they arrive - and where?

As for ahistorical - you are not thinking this through: IF players (or even AI) makes ANY move at all with ANY unit, the game would then be "ahistorical" by your definition. We give players the option to send units to Malaya - and we neither require nor recommend they do that. That said - I have great frustration with players who run - and don't fight - because the politics of that is completely wrong IMHO. But that is an opinion - and it may also be better strategy than fighting! One reason the Allies fought in Malaya was ignorance of the threat and arrogance that the Japanese were capable of anything much at all. We cannot deprive players of 20-20 hindsight.

Tell me more about the rest of 18 Division. Stock and CHS had it arriving in December 1941 at Karachi - and clearly that isn't so about the 53 Brigade part. I moved it back to January 8 at Aden. Should it be later still?

Tell me about 54 Brigade. Was it intended for Malaya? What was it part of? When did it arrive - where - if ever?
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RE: to all interested

Post by JeffroK »

Para 1, yes, you would probably have to create the equivalent of 3 Brigades (or brigade Groups) to cover this "happening" Convoy B11 above shows its arrival dates.
 
Para 2, maybe not. But I was concerned that if you didnt send the units into Singapore you gained a bit more flexibility. The last part is a problem with all games, and unless you have totally FoW and free setup its an advantage and disadvantage to both sides. Maybe the Allies (& the Jap later)should get points per turn for occupying points that they would otherwise evacuate.
 
Para 3, Vanilla & CHS have it wrong, but unless you make it arrive in Singapore and force the player to use it historically how do you give them the flexibility to use it as they wish. I generally ship it to Rangoon or Akyab. I see a similar problem with 7 Armd Bde, I would imagine it rarely goes to Rangoon, more likely to shore up the Imphal or Akyab fronts.
 
Para 4, 54 (& 55 Bde) were integral parts of 18 British Division. The Division shipped from England as a reinforcement for the Middle East, but the attack on Malaya changed priorities so it was sent there. Arrive far too late it was kept on Singapore. 53 bde was on an earlier convoy, I'm unsure of why, and arrived earlier and was deployed onto the Malay Peninsula where it fought in some battles around Johore Baru (Gemas???)
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JeffroK
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RE: to all interested

Post by JeffroK »

53 BDE arrived on Singapore about ../1/42, the convoy also included 6 HAA Rgt, 35 LAA Rgt & 85 AT Rgt, plus 51 crated Hurricanes. The Infantry at least landed without transport for its men & guns.
 
It was sent to the front under command II Corps and was attached to 11 Indian Div
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el cid again
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RE: to all interested

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: JeffK
Para 3, Vanilla & CHS have it wrong, but unless you make it arrive in Singapore and force the player to use it historically how do you give them the flexibility to use it as they wish. I generally ship it to Rangoon or Akyab. I see a similar problem with 7 Armd Bde, I would imagine it rarely goes to Rangoon, more likely to shore up the Imphal or Akyab fronts.

More in plus six hours - but

I give them the flexability by arriving backdated at Aden (or wherever) - and they then can move them where they wish. In Level 7 the units arrive at Durban - in Level 6 at Capetown (no Durban) - in Level 5 at Aden - in the case of this discussion.

Leaning toward breaking up 18 Division. What is arrival point/date of the rest of it - not 53 brigade?
el cid again
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RE: to all interested

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: JeffK

53 BDE arrived on Singapore about ../1/42, the convoy also included 6 HAA Rgt, 35 LAA Rgt & 85 AT Rgt, plus 51 crated Hurricanes. The Infantry at least landed without transport for its men & guns.

It was sent to the front under command II Corps and was attached to 11 Indian Div

Our data is arrival Singapore 13 January. Went into action about 20 January.
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RE: to all interested

Post by JeffroK »

I have 53 Bde going into the battle area on 17/1 (Aust Official History, The Japanese Thust, available online), it could be first action was a different date.
 
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Post by m10bob »

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