What is your favorite WWII plane?

[SMK-at-work]

Will you people please sod off and go find your own thread!![:@][:@][:@]

[Smead]

Really, the dislike for the United States, and even Western Europe, here, by the misc. Balkan Bois, is based upon several reasons.

1. Bafflement on the part of outsiders, like murderous neanderthals in the Balkans for example, that a multi-cultural nation and society, like the USA, can be so damned successful while in most other areas it just doesn't work. We therefore can concentrate on cultural, scientific and political accomplishment while others are still living in 1345 AD.

2. Disapointment on the part of those left behind, especially in Eastern Europe, when the best and brightest emigrated to the United States, ensuring their descendents of a marvelous existence far from the miserable conditions in the old countries.

3. Embarassment at home country conditions which have resembled those in backwaters like Liberia, Sierra Leone and the Congo. These conditions requiring Western European countries and the USA to send tens of thousands of soldiers to prevent the locals from acting as barbarians.

4. Realization that the future of the world lies in the direction of what is occuring in the USA and Western Europe regarding nearly every aspect of human developement and knowing that they have been left behind at the train station waving goodbye.

[morvwilson]

Beautiful aircraft! I still have a tough time choosing between the spit and p38! Then there is the Corsair, the B 26, the P51.

Why do I have to pick just one![8|]

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: morvwilson

Beautiful aircraft! I still have a tough time choosing between the spit and p38! Then there is the Corsair, the B 26, the P51.

Why do I have to pick just one![8|]

You dont, break them down into the smallest catagory you can to select them all from "different" catagories )

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: Smead

Really, the dislike for the United States, and even Western Europe, here, by the misc. Balkan Bois, is based upon several reasons.

1. Bafflement on the part of outsiders, like murderous neanderthals in the Balkans for example, that a multi-cultural nation and society, like the USA, can be so damned successful while in most other areas it just doesn't work. We therefore can concentrate on cultural, scientific and political accomplishment while others are still living in 1345 AD.

2. Disapointment on the part of those left behind, especially in Eastern Europe, when the best and brightest emigrated to the United States, ensuring their descendents of a marvelous existence far from the miserable conditions in the old countries.

3. Embarassment at home country conditions which have resembled those in backwaters like Liberia, Sierra Leone and the Congo. These conditions requiring Western European countries and the USA to send tens of thousands of soldiers to prevent the locals from acting as barbarians.

4. Realization that the future of the world lies in the direction of what is occuring in the USA and Western Europe regarding nearly every aspect of human developement and knowing that they have been left behind at the train station waving goodbye.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Stop that, my stomach is hurting me!

You see USA is one big melting pot. But, I was in USA, now call me racist or something but I wouldn't trade The Balkans for 1000 USA.

You are pathetic and worthless as a nation and as a people compared with The Balkans.

So what's to envy in USA? McDonalds culture of beaten land. You sure have beaten back when you accept that piece of junk and product of USA into your country.

As DNA (DNK) is strongest party in the world let's analyze something. I think that your melting pot misfired. With all that mixing of Irish with Pechuko Indians and later with Germans and Kojotee Nawai produced one thing - a nation of arrogant swines who think that they can own all universe.

You don't even know what is The Balkans. That is too good to be true for you.

Yes, we had stupid wars but our history and our people is still a thousand miles in front of Americans.

I know that Oleg will now say that I am disgrace but who cares, I am having fun [:D]

Do you think that anyone in the Balkans envy your pathetic civilization of America? You are wrong, completely wrong.
Even in that to return to DNA (DNK) we have descendants of Ilires here, descendants of Romans, old Ancient greeks (when I go to Ploce that is, descendants of blood Ancient Greeks).

As you are too stupid to comprehend anything I will try to explain something to you.
Do you know how old is this history of the Balkans? Too much for you.

By one thory even Troya was in fact in delta of Neretva. And your history is in fact history of genocide killing million Indians that have come to your way.

Blah! Take your USA and take your fake Hollywood movies with you.

We in Europe don't need you.

In fact it's kind of ironic that Superpower No. 1 have become this nation of clowns called Americans.

I think that this post will bring lot's of flames LOL


Mario

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Smead
Really, the dislike for the United States, and even Western Europe, here, by the misc. Balkan Bois, is based upon several reasons.

Hm. If there's one thing you could and should have learned by now than it's that I have very little in common with some people I geographically live close to. In fact I've been thru more nasty Internet flame wars with Mario (Monkey Brain), who is my compatriot and indeed we live in the same city, than with the rest of you taken together. Some of them were so nasty as to make this thread look like English gentlemen's club tea party by comparison.

Yet, like a regular ignorant Steakhouse monkey you are, you keep on insisting in putting us all very different people in the same bag, simply because we have ONE and maybe JUST ONE trait in common, that is we think you are complete idiot. [:D]

We may have differing opinions on all other billions of issues in the universe - as I am SURE we do have - but your ignorant, closeminded, limited brain does all it can to lump us together as that is the only way for you to explain some pretty basic social and communication phenomena. That's quite interesting in fact. [8D]

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

ORIGINAL: Smead
Really, the dislike for the United States, and even Western Europe, here, by the misc. Balkan Bois, is based upon several reasons.

Hm. If there's one thing you could and should have learned by now than it's that I have very little in common with some people I geographically live close to. In fact I've been thru more nasty Internet flame wars with Mario (Monkey Brain), who is my compatriot and indeed we live in the same city, than with the rest of you taken together. Some of them were so nasty as to make this thread look like English gentlemen's club tea party by comparison.

Yet, like a regular ignorant Steakhouse monkey you are, you keep on insisting in putting us all very different people in the same bag, simply because we have ONE and maybe JUST ONE trait in common, that is we think you are complete idiot. [:D]

We may have differing opinions on all other billions of issues in the universe - as I am SURE we do have - but your ignorant, closeminded, limited brain does all it can to lump us together as that is the only way for you to explain some pretty basic social and communication phenomena. That's quite interesting in fact. [8D]

Oleg playing a sissy just by discrediting me... You will not suck up enough to them, they already offended you and me and everybody else from The Balkans.
He already said that you are neandertal lol so you will not get by by discrediting me... blah.

They will look on you like savage barbarian from The Balkans without me here telling anything or with me here lol. So don't be a quisling. They first staretd with offense I just returned fire.

And one more thing, if I am gonna envy some civilization I would rather envy Ancient Greeks. haha. Not USA. They think that we envy them on their money. Even money don't go with you into grave.

But Oleg please do continue suck up game with Matrix and Americans. That goes well with your image.


Mario

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl
So you were trolling then. OK. But then, if you identify "steakhouse drones" as a kind of group, identify them collectively as something other than "whatever group to which you belong" and if such labels motivate the form and content of your replies, does that not make you the very sort of "collectivist" (and, I might add, bigot, although I think you might say "racist") that you claim to despise?

Yes, for something as basic and simple as provoking Steakhouse drones into action I may get labelled as collectivist if it suits ya [:D] Generalizations DO work sometimes - for one I am sure we all have to eat and drink to survive. However, saying "WE put the flag on the moon" simply because you live in the same state as the guy who actually did that is just ridicolous level of "collectivism".

I find this sort of reasoning to be quite peculiar. You have a very very distorted notion as to what a "communist" is, and when someone does not agree to your distorted notion you employ terms that seem to accuse the man of cowardice or otherwise lacking in guts. It is a very, errrm, narcissistic way of thinking about others, IMO.

Blah blah blah my friend, I am sure you can do better. You think I have distorted notion as to what "communist" is, I think you have. Wikipedia (yeah I know, but it's the fastest source on hand) defines communism thus:

"Communism is an ideology that seeks to establish a classless, stateless social organization based on common ownership of the means of production."

By that definition, people like Richard M. Stallman of GNU movement ARE communists. Now the hisotrical and political baggage of the term "communist" is so nasty and heavy even people who are commies by definition, seek to avoid being classified as such. Well whatever......

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain
But Oleg please do continue suck up game with Matrix and Americans. That goes well with your image.

I will continue to be nice (or "suck up" as you say) to Americans simply because I realise morons like Smead and sven do not represent America (even if in their dreams they think they do). They represent only their moronic, ignorant closeminded selves.

That is something you obviously can't understand. [:-]

Honestly, most of the Americans I know are very nice people. Unlike you [:D]

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain
But Oleg please do continue suck up game with Matrix and Americans. That goes well with your image.

I will continue to be nice (or "suck up" as you say) to Americans simply because I realise morons like Smead and sven do not represent America (even if in their dreams they think they do). They represent only their moronic, ignorant closeminded selves.

That is something you obviously can't understand. [:-]

Honestly, most of the Americans I know are very nice people. Unlike you [:D]

I can agree with that.

But you know that I get mad when someone offends The Balkans. [:D]
In fact I don't care about hacienda stated like Croatia or Serbia, I in fact hate them. lol
But as The Balkans is my cradle I cannot let it go and allow that anyone offends The Balkans as such.
I am one of the rare people that in fact term Balkans doesn't look in negative term. It cannot be negative. Only negative thing ie. biggest is nationalism (see Serbia and Croatia). So solution is to destroy Serbia and Croatia and make big Balkan state lol (but only Tito and few others would agree with me now and he is dead).

I was not nice but Americans shuld realize that the guy offended The Balkans and then I get mad like the Bull.

Don't take it too seriously, take this as a big strange view on America LOL


Mario


EDIT: Now I will play a little bit like Sartre hehe...
Concept of national states is passe.

[SMK-at-work]

I have to say that there are a lot of pretty a/c from WW2, but also some that simply dont' do it for me - even tho they were important contributers to teh war.

i've never been able to see the Hurricane as anythign but ordinary looking - not even this one that was reassembled by my first employer:



Most Russian a/c fal into the category too - even the diminutuve Yak-3 - reputedly hte best dogfighter of the war:



The P-40 is another - it has lots of character tho.....



I know many people like the Corsair, and it was undoubtadly a great aeroplane........just not a pretty one!!



The Ki-43 Hayabusa is one of the greatest of hte Japanese a/c of the war, and almsot.....almost looks good - but it's just a bit too dainty for my tastes...

[SMK-at-work]

There's no such thing as too many Spitfire pictures tho....
 

[Ursa MAior]

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

I see they sent supertrained commandoes, like you, to guard fuel depots. Nema diesela. Shh these offciers. It is a really genuine way to use supertroopers.

You know I think you were a cook or a clerk who spent his TOD in the camp and heard this nema diesela stroy from a REAL soldier. Baron Munchhausen.

Not commando, but my job description did entail operating beyond the FEBA at times. have you guessed it yet [;)]

Oh yeah. Semper fi, who dares wins etc. Sorry forgot that you are the secret agent from True Lies.

No no not Schwarzenegger. The other one, the fake one. Who pissed in his pants.

[tc237]

Dang, I go to watch a hockey game (Sidney Crosby beats Rangers in shootout, nice) and a civilwar breaks out. Do we have to remobilze IFOR?

Anyway, nice pics SMK, I think the Corsiar is "pretty" though.

OK, What the heck is this!?!?




Run you mouse between the XX's, holding the left click, to highlight the answer.
XX  No, your eyes do not deceive you; the following two images are of a B-17 flying over Germany, crewed by Germans.XX
XXThe KG200 flew these out of Hildesheim Airfield following repair after being shot down.  XX

From here: http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/aircraft.html 
You have to scroll, scroll, to about half way down the page.
Anyone have more info on this?

[Ursa MAior]

ORIGINAL: sven
But when the implementation was such that EVERYONE honestly felt their cultures should "lead the glory" rather than being implemented in such a way that true pan-ethnic nationalism took hold you had the festering of a system taking the worst of Jim Crow without the internal correcting mechanism a true representative democracy had built in. Now maybe one could argue that given another 25 years of relative calm Hungary would have shown more willingness to share power with their subject minorities since they took baby steps that way even as early as 1868 mirroring to some extent their own accommodation with Austria in '67. *Maybe* Then again when even as late as 1907 Hungary engaged in book burnings over trying to force the Slovaks to teach/do bussiness only in Hungarian I am hesitant to think that even sans Gavrillo's tantrum "it all would have been ok by 1939".

Well before 1848 we did not really had the chance to influence our/their fate due to the "beautiful" Hasburgs, who btw got to power with the help of us see Dürnkrut 1278. In the uprising there was a real chance to agree with the rumanians and the slovaks, but a number of unfortunate events (including mistakes from both sides + the acting of our "beloved" Habsbrugs) it has failed. Serbs were another story, since they started "supporting" their case with such acts like mass killings of children. The croats iimediately led an army against the. So there was little to do with them. After the uprising, as a reward for putting it down, they got as a gift what we got as a punishment.

As of sharing power after 1867 yes it could have been done, but when one is free after 300 years finally tends to make mistakes. It was the age of nationalism. We were just as nationalistic as the other nations. No more no less. One more thing. How many multicultural country exists today in Europe? Yugoslavia, gone, Czechslowakia, gone USSR, gone. Belgium, UK slowly falling apart, Tell me one where one minority has a share of 20% it doe not thrive for an independent country. I know the US but tell what are PROPORTIONS? Some 10% black and 8% latin? When they reach 40% together you wont recognize your own country. Believe me. And they will all scream how mistreated they were.[;)]
You know when you suddenyl realize your power it is not that easy to share. But heck why dont the US shows us some example how we should have done it? You have struggled for 50 yrs to be No1. Now you are. You can really show how to share it. [;)]

As of the Iron curtain you speak, along with smead, of it as if it were my choice SO i HAVE to suffer the consequences. If you really insist it was FDR who tossed us into the mouth of Stalin in Yalta. Churchill wanted to contain the soviets, but FDR has not supported the landing in Yugoslavia or simply opposing Stalin's dictates etc. If it was naivity or something else for us did not matter. If one person can and should be named for NOT making steps (when it WAS possible) it is FDR.

I am really pissed of at Rune's and at Smead's outright RACIST comments. Just because I am from behind the Iron Curtain I am not worse than ANY of you- NOT better either, but unlike you I never said something like this.

TO ALLOW SUCH OUTRIGHT RACISM IS THE REAL SHAME OF MATRIX! OF COURS IT GOES WITH US BASHING BUT THE SHIT STARTED FLYING AROUND WHEN THE MADCOW MORONS KICKED THE NIGHTPOT!

[mdiehl]

However, saying "WE put the flag on the moon" simply because you live in the same state as the guy who actually did that is just ridicolous level of "collectivism".

It's not "collectivism" in the sense you're using the word. It's nationalism. Nor do I think it "ridiculous." Any American that supported the effort financially, politically, or in the engineering sense, is part of the "we." After all, as I noted before, when Kennedy said "we choose to go to the moon," his "we" did not mean "we Kennedies" nor "we in the White House" nor "we in Washington D.C." -- it was clearly a referent to all Americans and that was certainly how the overwhelming majority of Americans took it.

Indeed, logically it could not be otherwise. Had there been less than a high degree of pan US unity of purpose there, the deed would not have been done. It was gawdafully expensive.

It was a uniquely American act. Now, maybe where you live it gives you some sense of satisfaction to pretend that Americans weren't on the whole part and parcel of that. I suppose, among the envious, such a claim might provide some small measure of compensation for the fact that your flag isn't one of the ones on the lunar surface.

Blah blah blah my friend, I am sure you can do better. You think I have distorted notion as to what "communist" is, I think you have. Wikipedia (yeah I know, but it's the fastest source on hand) defines communism thus:

"Communism is an ideology that seeks to establish a classless, stateless social organization based on common ownership of the means of production."

IMO I have done pretty well. Communism isn't the same as collectivism isn't the same as nationalism isn't the same as "shared group identity." In anthropology, and in political science, the terms mean vastly different things. I don't object to your use of Wiki for communism. As ballpark definitions go that is an acceptable one. But look again now at the example. Nothing about sharing the national identity and pride in saying "We" put a man on the moon implies a classless or stateless social organization, nor does it imply common ownership of the means of production.

By that definition, people like Richard M. Stallman of GNU movement ARE communists.

I'm not familiar with the example. I don't see how the statement "Richard G. Stallman may be a communist" has any bearing on the statement "An American who says 'we put a man on the moon' is a communist." The two are not logically connected at all.

Now the hisotrical and political baggage of the term "communist" is so nasty and heavy even people who are commies by definition, seek to avoid being classified as such. Well whatever......

That statement MAY be true. I don't see, however, how it has any bearing on the claim that Sven might be a communist because he said "We [Americans] put a man on the moon." Clearly, "We [Americans] put a man on the moon" has no bearing on advocacy of a classless society, no bearing on collectivizing the ownership of production, and expresses a nationalistic (statist) sentiment that is antithetical to the definition of "Communism" that you provided.

In short, your claim isn't supported by the facts.

[Ursa MAior]

One more thing sven. Between 1848 nad 1867 was NOT  A PERIOD OF RELATIVE calm, but an oppression by the austrians OF ALL NATIONALITIES -including their own fellow austrians- of MEDIEVAL proportions.
 
Well this one I had to admit. Hungary was never strong in markating his point of view. Your base of info must be a book written by probably a serb, since THEY hhad calmness for 10 yrs after the end of the uprising. From 1858 they waere subdued as ALL other was.

[mdiehl]

If you really insist it was FDR who tossed us into the mouth of Stalin in Yalta.

Not really. FDR simply conceded that the soviets had de facto control over an area that the US could NOT control -- at least not w/o going to war with our allies, the USSR. Ultimately, responsibility for being stuck behind the iron curtain lies with those who chose not to rebel against Soviet oppression and they chose not to leave.

Churchill wanted to contain the soviets, but FDR has not supported the landing in Yugoslavia or simply opposing Stalin's dictates etc. If it was naivity or something else for us did not matter. If one person can and should be named for NOT making steps (when it WAS possible) it is FDR.

I can think of 50 good reasons why the Allies ought not to have landed in Yugoslavia. #1 is a logistical one, and #2 is a concern that half the population might be working for the Axis.

I am really pissed of at Rune's and at Smead's outright RACIST comments. Just because I am from behind the Iron Curtain I am not worse than ANY of you- NOT better either, but unlike you I never said something like this.

I do not see where Rune or Smead have made any racist comment.

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen
Not commando, but my job description did entail operating beyond the FEBA at times. have you guessed it yet [;)]

Visiting whorehouses on the outskirts of local towns catering to UN personnel, verifying one can survive sex with local 5$ whores without having his cock turn into green goo? [:D]

Oh I crack me up again.

how could i miss the show? Oh man, I even deblocaded Rude...,that is really funny[:D]

[pauk]

.