Treespider's CHS - China Revisited - 1st look

[Nikademus]

I thought so too...but i'm pretty sure Mike Wood dispelled that notion. Bombers attack at normal and extended ranges with their specific loadouts. Not sure if there's some futzing with the extended loadout, but normal loadout was stated as being specific to the device type and number carried in the editor.

[Nikademus]

as an example, i halved the bombloads in the 4E's without messing with max load.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

I thought so too...but i'm pretty sure Mike Wood dispelled that notion. Bombers attack at normal and extended ranges with their specific loadouts. Not sure if there's some futzing with the extended loadout, but normal loadout was stated as being specific to the device type and number carried in the editor.

If that's the case then I will adjust the loadout devices in addition to the max load.... I checked and there are only a handful of types that will be affected...the B-17, B-24, B-29 and the Brits likely as well. I am not reducing them below 6500 on purpose just reflecting that there normal load was 60% of maxload whatever the 60% comes out to...in the case of the B-29 it is 12,000. In game terms that affects which bases I can place them on without penalty. In the end I think it will workout nicely.

[treespider]

First look at Formosa...

Code: Select all

Old Name		New Name		Airfields			
 				Old Size	Old SPS	New Size	New SPS
 FORMOSA							
 Taichu		Chai'i		5	6	3	1
 Takao		Tainan		8	7	8	6
 Pesca.				3	3	2	0
 Taihoku				2	4	2	1
 		Karenko				1	1
 		Hengchun				2	0
 

Karenko is located in the currently empty east coast hex of Formosa.
Hengchun represents the airstrip at Hengchun on the southern peninsula where the 50th Sentai was located.

Next stop the Southern Philippines.....

[Cpt Sherwood]

I really like this idea Treespider. I think you may be on to something here, but I am sure that many JFB will be complaining.

[Halsey]

I'm not a JFB but, I don't care for the idea of B-17's routinely operating out of level 3-4 airfields.

If that's the case, you've just taken out the need for 2E bombers to fill that gap.
It's a problem with the current CHS as it stands now, and requires an historical style of play to stop it.

The basing rules in the manual, whether they really work or not, should be used as the guide.
It is accurate in that respect.

Yeah, the US operated B-17's out of Midway, for a few days.
That op was the exception, not the norm.
The design should be based on the norm.

My 2 cents as a AFB.[;)]

[JeffroK]

The other side to this is keeping the number of 4E down.
 
I'm playing CHS 155 and only in mid 43 would I say I have enough in the pool to be comfortable. Many of the sqns  operated with only 7-10 aircraft until late 42.
 
Keep up the work, there must be answer out there somewhere.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

I'm not a JFB but, I don't care for the idea of B-17's routinely operating out of level 3-4 airfields.

If that's the case, you've just taken out the need for 2E bombers to fill that gap.
It's a problem with the current CHS as it stands now, and requires an historical style of play to stop it.

The basing rules in the manual, whether they really work or not, should be used as the guide.
It is accurate in that respect.

Yeah, the US operated B-17's out of Midway, for a few days.
That op was the exception, not the norm.
The design should be based on the norm.

My 2 cents as a AFB.[;)]

I agree... I am reconsidering the downgraded bombloads for the heavies with the exception of the B-29. What I really need is some good data on extended range missions flown by the heavies in the Pacific and where they originated from.

[treespider]

An intensive review of bases is proving quite time consuming .... so I have opted to apply a quick and dirty overlay...although I will continue the review...

In essence -

At Start size is (-1) unless it is a size 1,2, 9 or 10 base then it stays the same.

SPS size is (-2) unless it is a 9 then it stays the same.

Here are some samples...

Code: Select all

 #	Name			AF Sz	Old SPS	New Sz	New SPS
 517	BORNEO			0	0	0	0
 518	Sampit			1	1	1	0
 519	Jesselton			1	3	1	1
 520	Singka.			3	3	2	1
 521	Pontianak			1	1	1	0
 522	Kuching			4	1	3	0
 523	Miri			0	1	0	0
 524	Brunei			3	1	2	0
 525	Sandakan			0	1	0	0
 526	Tarakan			3	1	2	0
 527	Samarinda			3	1	2	0
 528	Balik.			4	1	3	0
 529	Bandjer.			3	3	2	1
 530				0	0	0	0
 531	JAVA			0	0	0	0
 532	Batavia			4	3	3	1
 533	Bandoeng			3	1	2	0
 534	Tjilitjap			2	2	2	0
 535	Merak			1	1	1	0
 536	Djok.			2	2	2	0
 537	Madioen			4	2	3	0
 538	Kragen			1	1	1	0
 539	Malang			4	1	3	0
 540	Soerabaja			4	3	3	1
 541	Pama.			1	1	1	0
 542				0	0	0	0
 543	CELEBES			0	0	0	0
 544	Makassar			3	3	2	1
 545	Pinrang			0	1	0	0
 546	Tomini			0	1	0	0
 547	Makale			0	1	0	0
 548	Pomala			0	1	0	0
 549	Kendari			4	3	3	1
 550	Manado			3	3	2	1
 
 600	MINDA.			0	0	0	0
 601	Davao			2	1	2	0
 602	Cagayan			4	2	3	0
 603	Butuan			1	1	1	0
 604	Dadjangas			0	2	0	0
 605	Cotabato			2	1	2	0
 

[veji1]

Interesting first step.. obviously you will have to make adjustments, for example to allow a few AF 5 bases here and there (one could argue that somewhere in Java there should be possible to have one AF 5 for example)...

Overall it is great though, I am a jap fan boy, but I think it will be healthy not to see the horde of torpedo carrying nells flying out of Kuching on day 2 to sink everything in the Malacca strait...

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: veji1

Interesting first step.. obviously you will have to make adjustments, for example to allow a few AF 5 bases here and there (one could argue that somewhere in Java there should be possible to have one AF 5 for example)...

Overall it is great though, I am a jap fan boy, but I think it will be healthy not to see the horde of torpedo carrying nells flying out of Kuching on day 2 to sink everything in the Malacca strait...

War Plan Orange (Edward S. Miller, 1991, Naval Institute Press) has some interesting things to say about base sizes in the Pacific. For example, Johnston Island had a surface area of 0.04 square mile (about 259x0.04 = 10 hectares = 26 acres). An American bomber squadron (16 aircraft) needed about 160 acres of space. The average atoll had around a square mile (0.5-2) of surface area.

Kuching had an airstrip in 1941--figure you could operate fighters without expansion, in other words, a '1'.

[spence]

War Plan Orange (Edward S. Miller, 1991, Naval Institute Press) has some interesting things to say about base sizes in the Pacific. For example, Johnston Island had a surface area of 0.04 square mile (about 259x0.04 = 10 hectares = 26 acres). An American bomber squadron (16 aircraft) needed about 160 acres of space. The average atoll had around a square mile (0.5-2) of surface area.

I won't quibble about it being a small place and I certainly see no place to put 200 a/c but it does not appear as useless as you describe.

[herwin]

Majuro (2 sq miles, airstrip of 5800x445 feet plus a second one of 175x4000 feet) had an airfield capacity of two USMC VB squadrons, a half PATRON, a staging area for one USAF fighter group.

Taroa had an X-layout with two runways of 4000-5000 feet in length. It operated Zeros and Bettys.

Wotje and Mili were similar.

[spence]

Map

[spence]

Maybe the planes "hot-racked it" at the time. It was a common practice in the Navy back then.[:D]

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: veji1

Interesting first step.. obviously you will have to make adjustments, for example to allow a few AF 5 bases here and there (one could argue that somewhere in Java there should be possible to have one AF 5 for example)...

Overall it is great though, I am a jap fan boy, but I think it will be healthy not to see the horde of torpedo carrying nells flying out of Kuching on day 2 to sink everything in the Malacca strait...

I agree. There will be adjustments as well,,,

For the purposes of this mod a very major non-established airfield will rate an SPS of 3 ...ie Tinnian.

Most major airfields will rate a SPS of 2... so it is likely you will see Soerbaja upgraded to an SPS 2.

At start there will be very few level 5 airfields in or around the SRA the exceptions being Clark, Singapore, Tainan and possibly a base in Indo-China...

Level 4's will also be few and far between at start as well....

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: veji1

Interesting first step.. obviously you will have to make adjustments, for example to allow a few AF 5 bases here and there (one could argue that somewhere in Java there should be possible to have one AF 5 for example)...

Overall it is great though, I am a jap fan boy, but I think it will be healthy not to see the horde of torpedo carrying nells flying out of Kuching on day 2 to sink everything in the Malacca strait...

War Plan Orange (Edward S. Miller, 1991, Naval Institute Press) has some interesting things to say about base sizes in the Pacific. For example, Johnston Island had a surface area of 0.04 square mile (about 259x0.04 = 10 hectares = 26 acres). An American bomber squadron (16 aircraft) needed about 160 acres of space. The average atoll had around a square mile (0.5-2) of surface area.

Kuching had an airstrip in 1941--figure you could operate fighters without expansion, in other words, a '1'.

Some things to keep in mind...offensive missions require a level 2 base.

So for me - an advance fighter strip or bomber base will rate as a 2(0). So in the example of Kuching I will have to check Bloody Shambles to see how quickly Kuching was made operational for offensive missions.

A recon or landing strip for supplies such as Kokoda will rate a 1(0).
A base capable of handling medium bombers will rate an SPS of (1). Maximum size = 4(1)
A major airfield will rate an SPS of 2 - Examples include Rabaul. Max Size = 5(2)
A super base will rate an SPS of 3 or above - Example Tinnian. Max Size = 6+(3+)

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: herwin

Majuro (2 sq miles, airstrip of 5800x445 feet plus a second one of 175x4000 feet) had an airfield capacity of two USMC VB squadrons, a half PATRON, a staging area for one USAF fighter group.

Taroa had an X-layout with two runways of 4000-5000 feet in length. It operated Zeros and Bettys.

Wotje and Mili were similar.

Taroa will likely field and SPS of 1 or 2.

Wotje will be a 0
"Japanese built single runway running roughly north-west to south-east in the center of Wotje island."


Mili will be an SPS 1 or 2.
"After the occupation of Kiribati, the development of the air base on Mili were begun in the autumn of 1942. Using Korean and Marshallese labor force. Three crossing runways were built: 4750', 4550' and 4400'. Also, two hangars and a service apron."


Of course Taroa and Mili could easily be rated an SPS of 3...but due to game limitations this allows the Japanese to expand these into major bases too easily IMO.

[treespider]

Picked up a most excellent book at the library the other day to help me on my quest...

"Building the Navy's Bases in World War II: History of the Bureau of Yards and Docks and the Civil Engineer Corps 1940-46 Vol., 1 and 2" Has some great details on all kinds of bases as well as Seabee unit information.

At the start of the war Johnston island was still under construction. In September 1941, there was no airstrip. By December 7, 1941 the following facilities had been usably completed...a single 4000 foot strip, two 400 man barracks, two large mess halls, a 30,000 cubic foot cold storage building, a powerhouse a 50 bed underground hospital a fresh water evaporating plant, severl shop buildings, a three room cottage, 16,000 barrels of fuel storge and the installation of five 25,000 gallon gasoline tanks. By December 1943 the strip was lengthened to 6,000 feet.

Sounds to me like Johnston island rates as a 2(1) at best or likley a 1(1) or a 2(0) at the start of the war.

[treespider]

Back to Tinnian....since Tinnian and Saipan are only separated by a narrow straight I think I might alter the bases such that Saipan now represents Saipan-Tinnian and the current Tinnian represents the island of Rota. The Japanese built a single strip on Rota prior to the Marianas campaign. This change enables me to make Saipna-Tinnian a 'super' base with an SPS of 6.